ben55 wrote:P-51 man.. you're not understanding or refusing to. I haven't said a damn thing about him having talent.. He does have knowledge which you blindly refuse to see(you want to believe this guy doesn't know a major from a minor scale)... out of some unnatural hatred for Eminem(I don't like his music.. but I don't have a personal vendetta against him). I didn't think you could hate something/someone more than the ee patch, but Eminem oh man he strikes a nerve with you.
Did you read my posts at all? The pictures were supposed to be proving the fact that he has knowledge. I didn't feel like putting captions labeling what they were there for because I thought it was self-explanatory. I understand that a single person cannot make a whole record alone, but when you need that many people to create something that you are putting your name to then there are some problems. If you can somehow prove to me that he actually did something more than just write lyrics for the album then I might change my mind a bit. And I do not have an unnatural hatred for Eminem, he just happens to be the subject we are talking about. The things I am saying can be applied to a bunch of pop stars with zero musical skills.
ben55 wrote:
I have said he understands fundamental elements of music and has used his "simple" music to be successful and create a liked product. I don't see how that is debatable. As much as I hate Lil Wayne I understand he understands the basics of music that every child gets in high school.. he has used his limited to knowledge to create a product that appeases to masses. Basically they have gotten the most out of their knowledge and talent.. yet you hate them for it?
If by fundamental elements you mean he knows the twelve semitones and can draw a treble clef, then I would agree with you. But he has done nothing to show that he has an adequate understanding of advanced music theory, nor has he shown that he possesses the ability to compose a song in its entirety by himself. I quickly scanned his wikipedia page and there is no evidence that he even knows how to play a instrument, so what makes you think he understands music theory and can write? How can this man, or Lil Wayne, or anyone else who has an elementary school education in music be considered an outstanding musician? If you want to call him a good rapper that's fine, but calling him a musician is like calling canoe a warship.
ben55 wrote:
Go to Best Buy -- buy a random CD -- look at album credits -- notice most labels have these same things Eminem is using. "Drum Engineers, Guitar mixers, etc" Come to the conclusion that most non independent artists have great amount of people help them with their music.
Yeah I understand the need for mixers and producers and that kind of stuff, and that's fine because it gives the musicians more time to focus on their music. But Eminem had over thirty people that wrote and recorded the album for him. What kind of respectable musician would even want thirty people to do his job for him?
ben55 wrote:
Art can't be defined by most yes.. it is a debate(heavily one sided one).. but the majority claim it can't be defined.. do a simple "google search".. or go ask your local Art Professor. Although he could share your viewpoint of closed minded artistic elitism. Which is ironic since your in no position to show this elitism.
You don't have to be a professor to show elitism. You could just be someone who acknowledges the fact that you can't half-ass a couple of instruments and computer generated sounds and then go calling them music. Rap was never meant to be music, it should stay off of records and in local neighborhoods where it belongs.
ben55 wrote:
Let's say you and I listen to a Vivaldi Cello Concerto, and we're both awe struck. Now you could say the use of the Cello, harmonies, melodies, etc that create a perfect texture is why we're awe struck. But why do those elements make me in awe. That is impossible to universally define. It is undefined between each individual.
You are comparing two completely different things here. Baroque is inherently superior to rap and Vivaldi actually composed the whole concerto and wrote the pieces for each instrument that plays in it. Which leads me to the point that music is not undefined because if you look at Vivaldi's work on paper you can tell that it is well-written music, you don't even have to hear it. When you try comparing that to the sheet music of any rap song it is obvious which piece of music is better. Music has technical properties like anything else and for most people there is a clear difference between something that is complex and well-made and something that is simple and can be done by any kid in middle school.
@Ghost
Like I said I know that it is uncommon for a single person to create a whole album by themselves. But the extent that Eminem and similar pop stars do it is excessive and unnecessary. I guess record labels being assholes has something to do with this but if Eminem took pride in his work he would sacrifice a bit of money so he could make something that he could legitimately call his own creation.
This made me think of something else, since I've never been to a rap show can somebody answer this for me? When a rapper performs live does he just stand there rapping behind a bunch of computers playing his song or are there other people present playing music in the background?
... err move onto his own producing gig?
