I would like to formally request...

[Nicoly23]

Yeah i told him not to put it in here rofl, but no i pretty much mean you fail, Anywho, back to topic XD



Whos up for Tributing back? LOL

[HK47]

Lawlsauce moo noone likes you here except omega.

[Nicoly23]

Lawlsauce moo noone likes you here except omega.

And that Troll Xwarrior, and a few others lawl, who remain nameless o_O

[P-51]

Omega thanks for revealing the truth lawl. I knew Moo was behind that shit, if it was anyone smarter it would have been much more convincing.

Anyway back to the topic.

You denied being both an illiterate person and a sarcastic asshole. Obviously you are not illiterate so clearly you are a sarcastic asshole. There was no reason for you to say something along the lines of "you got what you requested because it is already there". Being the admin you should obviously know we no longer have the ability to tribute but the screen where we formerly could tribute is still available.

How could you ever assume somebody would be stupid enough to request something that is already there. And like I showed you before many of us had other comments that hinted at the fact we wanted the ability to tribute players back. Nothing could have made you think something like that other then the fact that you were trying to be a sarcastic asshole and wanted nothing to do with our request.

Even if you continue to claim that you didn't know what we were talking about, you can't have a tribute screen without the ability to tribute. So we cannot have a tribute screen until we are given the ability to tribute which we obviously do not have yet. So no matter which way you look at it, you were being a sarcastic asshole and ignoring our request for whatever reasons you may have had.

These actions are the things that make you unfit to be an admin

Also you did not present the option that you could report cheaters via screenshots in the vote so many people could have assumed that getting rid of tributes was the only way to eliminate cheaters. They may be either unaware that they can do this or just not know how so they could not consider any other options.

There is no reason why the old method of reporting cheaters should not work and if people are too stupid or lazy to do that then they shouldn't be complaining about cheaters. This option should be thoroughly advertised and made well known before doing something as extreme as taking away tributes. I think we should at least do this and have another vote on bring the tributes back because taking away a part of the game like this is ridiculous and unnecessary.

[Zeus]

A little blast from the past here...
But this is honestly the funniest thing i think i've ever read in my life.
You guys are still on here? with the same arguments? with the same bullshit as it was before the servers went down?
I don't know many of you personally, and i dont know if you remember me or not. I think i know ELite if its El1te or whatever he had his name as.
BUt honestly, that picture said it all, why so serious? I'm assuming by the flaming posts towards you that you guys are Moderators now? Well then Moderate. If Elite is a mod (i dont know) why are you flaming back? very unprofessional. Maybe if the old forrums were back you can study and learn from how moderators are supposed to act.
Its obvious that Not many people play the gam anymore, and it seems that a select few who, giving them all props for bringing back the game and doing all the work, control the ultimate outcome of all decisions. But you are supposed to moderate the game experience for the community. The Community as a whole. By taking away an aspect of the original game, that greatly impacts one set , and takes away a part of the game is rediculous. You are SUPPOSED to moderate what is already there. At least that was how it was done back when. WHat happened to reporting people? Getting them banned with proof? Instead you let the glitching faggots win by deleteing an entire aspect of the game?
One of your only valid points was that people learned to make it almost impossible to catch eco glitching..if they did that than the ammount obviously wasnt to great and you should be able to PWN them anyway..like we've all stated its an almost 10 year old game that only few ppl play for fun and good times like the old times.
Just my opinion but the deletiung of tributes is retarded. Are you next going to delete civs so people cannot hex them? It takes the same ammount of effort to report a hexed civ as it does an eco glitcher.
Soon nothing will remain that can possible cause the moderators any trouble of actually moderating anything..and then there will be no need for said moderators, or this forrum, and the community will finally die.
Maybe this is just a word from a neutral party, but honestly guys, grow up, leave the game in its entirety, and ban people the old fashion way.
-Zeus
P.S. I apoligize for the grammar/spelling mistakes i was lazy.

[Jushe]

*Claps* Bravo Zeus Bravo o_o...

[Nicoly23]

I Salute you Zues, You summed it all up pretty nice i'd say, But i'm sure Omega will write back with another one of his Essays' talking bout some silly stuff to try and outdo you, but either way lol, good job. :p

[Zeus]

ha, i wasn't trying to outdue anyone, just stating an opinion i suppose.
It just seems that it would be unfortunate to be in the minority of this argument. If he does post another long post analyzing each phrase i probably wouldn't read it. How i feel has been stated, and sadly the decision still is his apparently, not the communities.

[Moo]

Looks like ye be sucking ye Captain's D!CK

Omegatrollpicture.png (257.62 KiB) Viewed 9539 times

[Nicoly23]

Haha, well little do you know, That's a Transvestite

[X warrior411]

Haha, well little do you know, That's a Transvestite

So you fapped to it and found out?

I feel sorry for you.

[Moo]

Haha, well little do you know, That's a Transvestite

NICOLY! YOU APOLIGIZE TO YOUR MOTHER THIS INSTANT

[Omega]

@Zeus

1) We most certainly do moderate. If you didn't notice, like 30% of this thread is about moderation actions that have been taken, among them the banning of Nicoly, Jushe, and HK for a significant period of time, as well as a short ban on P-51, and especially the locking of two threads and the moving of this one.

2) Elite is not a moderator. You can see a list of moderators and administrators here: memberlist.php?mode=leaders

3) If you think the old moderators never flamed anyone on the old forums, or that they always acted professionally, you either missed certain threads that were retroactively deleted at VUG or essentially ALL of Fatmother's posts on ClanZone. This is pretty much a moot point, as it's all in the past and no one really cares anyway.

4) We do moderate the game experience for the community. To do this, unlike the old moderators who for the most part, did not pay much attention to the happenings in the community outside of their inner circle or the VUG fourms, we actually DO listen to the ENTIRE community. One way we do this is by having polls where virtually every active player can vote in (i.e. a lobby popup that we only stop running once votes coming in have tapered off to essentially zero for awhile).

5) Your assertion we are supposed to moderate what is already there is demonstrably faulty and rests upon your own preconceived notion of how things "ought" to be. Since you say you won't read a long analysis, I think I'll simply dismiss your assertion presented without evidence, without mentioning any evidence to the contrary.

6) We still have a report abuse or cheaters section, and it's been used for the very purpose of getting a cheater banned within 24 hours of this post. I don't get how you think we've abandoned that method of doing things.

7) "One of your only valid points was that people learned to make it almost impossible to catch eco glitching..if they did that than the ammount obviously wasnt to great and you should be able to PWN them anyway.."

That's silly. Glitching an unprovable amount of resources is most certainly capable of winning them a game they already have the advantage in, or breaking a game where they have a disadvantage in wide open. After 45 f11 in virtually any game, copious quantities of resources can be glitched without being provable, or often even detectable. Even *extremely* stupid glitchers can usually evade detection to the level of proving a cheat past this timeframe. If you don't understand how this is, you need a better understanding of how the resource glitch functions and/or is proven, better math skills, or to understand EE better.

8) "It takes the same ammount of effort to report a hexed civ as it does an eco glitcher."

Not even remotely close. Proving a hexed civ is ridiculously easy if it's a multiple visible bonus to the point of requiring a single screenshot. Doing so when it's a 'hidden' bonus is mildly more difficult, and can be done in 3 minutes by yourself in the scenario editor, or in the same amount of time by loading in as the suspected cheater. That's a total of a 5 minute time investment, maximum.

Proving a stupid resource glitcher requires at least two screenshots. We're not talking about stupid glitchers though. We're talking about smart ones, and to do that requires a large body of evidence as well as significant analysis, if proving it can even be accomplished, and you won't know that until AFTER you've analyzed the evidence. This is a large time investment, and not only requires sharp analytical skills, but also that you have the presence of mind to collect the required proof as the game is going on, and post game. 99% of players don't have the analytical skills. 99% of the other 1% have better things to do with their time than waste it on the low chance of actually catching someone.

9) More or less directed at everyone. If you want to be taken seriously, it's usually a good idea to make your absolute best effort to make intellectually honest arguments.

[Omega]

@P-51

1) "You denied being both an illiterate person and a sarcastic asshole."

I said:

...So, I locked it, with a reply that said:

Blame the community if you don't like the outcome of the vote on tributes. Oh, and request granted, because the Tribute Screen is still there.

It's short and to the point, although all the points it hits on are things that you apparently missed. The second sentence is a sarcastic quip, but a well deserved one--you weren't even careful enough to actually request what you wanted in your request for it. If pointing out your inability to actually request what you thought you were requesting makes me an asshole, then so be it.

Somehow, I don't think the statement "If...makes me an asshole, then so be it" is a denial. It's pretty pointless to actively deny a subjective label like "asshole", et cetera, but it can be enlightening to probe the underlying reasons for the application of that term and see if they correctly apply, blah blah blah.

2) "Obviously you are not illiterate so clearly you are a sarcastic asshole."

Well, in that case, you're either a moron arguing with no reasonable grounds who should be pointed to and laughed at, or an idiot who shouldn't have any attention payed to him. Which is it? Keep in mind we're going to pretend that false dichotomies don't exist, so you surely MUST be one or the other--oh and yes, this is sarcasm since I don't feel like writing any kind of lengthy post, so I'm condensing 2-3 paragraphs of "you're a retard for saying this" into 3 sentences of demonstrating how retarded it actually is.

3) "There was no reason for you to say something along the lines of "you got what you requested because it is already there". Being the admin you should obviously know we no longer have the ability to tribute but the screen where we formerly could tribute is still available."

I've already stated why I said exactly what I said, on at least two occasions in this thread, so "there was no reason..." falls flat. The second sentence, does it even serve a point? We both know I know that and so does everyone else with even half a clue, and we've both stated it several times.

4) "How could you ever assume somebody would be stupid enough to request something that is already there. And like I showed you before many of us had other comments that hinted at the fact we wanted the ability to tribute players back. Nothing could have made you think something like that other then the fact that you were trying to be a sarcastic asshole and wanted nothing to do with our request."

I like how you're ignoring chunks of our actual conversation to hit on something here. First off, I'll just say that there are an ample supply of people who request things that are already there, or request things that have zero idea what they're talking about, especially memorable ones would be a way to prevent nuclear missiles from killing your wonders, and the re-inclusion of citizens to the game. Now on to the rest of it...

Your "showing" was pretty much a failure. I did a more detailed analysis in one of my posts. Here it is for you. Try not being so biased and accept the fact your communication was imprecise.

From viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2555
You start with...
"Topic: I would like to formally request
Post: A tribute screen. ..."

Nicoly chimes in with "I too wish for the Tribute screen back", and later in his posts says "...rather than getting rid of the total tribute screen."

Jushe chimes in with "...And a Tribute Screen would be nice again"

HK47 chimes in with "Yeah teh trib screen would be an absolutely astounding deature. To uh, put back into the game."

White Fang weighs in with "yeah getting trib screen back would be nice"

You weigh in again with "I would tend to agree the tribute screen is a most useful feature and wish to have it reinstated."

Every single post on that thread, except your second one where you claim without any evidence to indicate anything one way or the other, that no one cares enough to glitch anymore (assuming that they could still glitch units, I suppose...), and my post, people don't realize that they're not requesting what they think they are. Reading the entire posts looks even less flattering for your case, as there is only one indication that you meant the ability to tribute, from you, in the original post.

We've also been over the same thing a few other times. The last one was when you were insisting you/people in that thread communicated very clearly so that no one could have misunderstood, and I said to actually look at that thread from the perspective of someone who hasn't ever played EE and doesn't know anything about it and they'd obviously conclude you wanted the tribute screen back. The exact same goes for someone who's played EE and simply hasn't played recently or kept up with current events. Only someone with current knowledge, and the ability to INFER your actual intended meaning can conclude you want to be able to tribute again, and don't actually want the tribute screen back because it's still there. I really don't want to have to address this issue yet again, because it's been done so many times.

5) "Even if you continue to claim that you didn't know what we were talking about, you can't have a tribute screen without the ability to tribute. So we cannot have a tribute screen until we are given the ability to tribute which we obviously do not have yet. So no matter which way you look at it, you were being a sarcastic asshole and ignoring our request for whatever reasons you may have had."

I've stated plainly that I knew exactly what you intended to request. I've stated it at least a dozen times. How the fuck have you missed it again and again, even though you've responded directly to it in some cases? One specific case would be the first part of my reply to you, where I quoted myself. For anyone to understand that, they MUST be capable of realizing that it follows from the last sentence especially, that I knew exactly what you were asking. Oh, and I believe you said about that specific quote, "I understand him fine".

We've already covered the false dichotomy thing in this post, and I gave some strong hints at it before that honestly should have been picked up on. We've also covered the multitude of reasons I had in great detail, so it seems a bit strange you say "whatever reasons you may have had" as if you do not know.

As for 'it cant be the trib screen without tribs', I suggest you inform all of the players who call it the tribute screen that they cannot do so, and must find a new term to describe it. This line of argument is not only pedantic, but pretty much ignores the usage of language, the way languages evolve, and the fact that language breaks when you try and push it too far.

6) "Also you did not present the option that you could report cheaters via screenshots in the vote so many people could have assumed that getting rid of tributes was the only way to eliminate cheaters. They may be either unaware that they can do this or just not know how so they could not consider any other options."

You are entirely correct. We didn't mention what should be to obvious to all people who have used the lobby for any significant amount of time and who have a brain, or what new users, what few we get, could easily find out *before* voting. There certainly may be, and perhaps even are, users who didn't know they could report cheaters.

We also did not mention that invisible pink unicorns don't exist, and thus, don't magically mind-control cheaters into cheating. Therefore, there may be, and perhaps even are, users who didn't know this and supported the change because they felt bad at these unwitting people being mind controlled and then banned from a game they loved!

To be serious, every poll on an issue has to assume people have some basic level of knowledge of the issue involved. We did that, and we even did our best to ensure people had this level of knowledge by referring them to the forums for the topic(s) on it. The only things we explicitly mentioned in the poll (specifically, before it), were to correct outright lies about facts that a lot of retards were spreading. We didn't even correct all of them, just the three that seemed most prevalent.

7) "I think we should at least do this and have another vote on bring the tributes back because taking away a part of the game like this is ridiculous and unnecessary."

We know that's what you think. The community disagrees. It's been stated more than a few times now, something else you keep repeatedly missing I suppose, that we most certainly will do another poll if it seems that a fair amount of the community has changed their opinion on the issue, etc., etc., etc., *insert all the stuff I mentioned the other times I've stated this yourself, here (actually, just go back and read...)*.

8) "Don't argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." (no, I'm not quoting P-51 here)

While I'm convinced that isn't necessarily true, it certainly has a lot of truth to it. This exchange has gone on long enough so that anyone reading it curiously can see what both 'sides' are saying and make up their own mind. We're at the point now where it's transparent you're either not paying a lot of attention to the argument, or are intentionally or unknowingly mischaracterizing what's been said to make it seem like your statements have more weight than they actually do, and once you get through that all you have is statements about what you think, presented without support, and a 'what if' that for lack of a better word is misguided. At that point, it's evident there's no convincing you, and as anyone who can be convinced already has been one way or the other, don't expect any more lengthy replies.

[Jushe]

I Lol'd I like Omega's tactic, Write Unnecessary Long Posts with an Unnecessary Large Amount Of Uncommon Words In an Attempt to Break Moral XD