Re: mod no rush
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:03 am
Note that if it's on aoc I'd definitely add cloacking or w/e it's called.
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This might be true, but could you at least care to explain why. How are you gonna use sea aa effectively against air on these maps? I mean, when wings siege can reach over to the other island then they can hit boats there with ease. This is where pocket will use his air to help out the wing with the fight to win shore.Omega wrote:Kazter, you're out of your league here. You're plain wrong.
You're better off making carriers, F-14s, and a few other support ships (and/or sea kings) than you are making B-2 bombers.
Siege HP: the most worthless bonus ever known (OK, so it's about even with all the other worthless bonuses). Unless you're playing Middle DM, which we're not here.Wing civ would have siege ad/range/att/hp [emphasis added]
Cause you're clearly using your nano island experience to uncover what would work in mod.Arntzen wrote:Why do you keep saying its mod?
But I would agree that some siege fighting will be essential on the shore, but I believe having a bunch of tridents constantly shooting will tip the balance cause u have to be extremely fixed on keeping your walls healthy while your "autoshots" from siege will be aiming at a navi rather than the other shore.I have not played a lot of Mod sh f11 games on island but I've played hundreds of p2n's. They are all about winning shore and to do this wing gets siege/navi and pocket gets air.
My whole point is that in the shore between the two wings they will have a ton of siege/towers so the cruisers wont stay alive there. And this is exactly where air will come. Note that pocket will make airports on wings island.Omega wrote:On the effectiveness of bombers from the pocket:
- Cruisers decimate air. Like, have you ever seen how powerful cruisers are?
Yes they are, but IMO you really want fighters to do the main damage against enemy bomber/nukes.Omega wrote:- Anti-air buildings are strong, and can manually target the nuke you occasionally mention.
I already mentioned flaks as a option in case your pocket can't defend you. Something he should do, or you need to waste iron on flaks.Omega wrote:- People can easily make a few fortresses, populate their citizens into said fortress, make flak halftracks, and unload them from other fortresses. Also modern, so direct damage here. This is generally overkill
As I'm saying if they come for the bombers they will die.Omega wrote:- Assuming cruisers supposedly can't sit in the initial bomber path for whatever reason, they have a 8+4 range and are fairly fast. Expect them to kill all of the zero-fuel bombers on return.
We both know they suck compared to regular fighters.Omega wrote:- Carriers with F-14s actually aren't bad; F-14s can attack bombers, and make them die.
YES.Omega wrote:- In the event bombers are some real problem, people can make F-15s and get them out of airports quite rapidly using a well-known glitch; unless you're sending a lot of fighters with your bombers and the other person can't for some reason pick off your fighters first with their AA and/or just unload their F-15s intelligently, bombers are still going to get fucked up.
I'm really wondering if we're playing same map type/map size..Omega wrote:- Since we're talking a team game here with the pocket going bombers, it's not like there aren't *two* places where cruisers can certainly target all bombers being used to attack a wing, although admittedly one is somewhat vulnerable to prophets in one case.
It's more difficult to avoid cruisers than you think on the attacking end of an attack, and virtually impossible on the returning end of an attack.
I said siege. Howitzer (or w/e they are called) is also siege.Omega wrote:On the effectiveness of arty versus ships:
In this case the artys can stand behind enemy artys range since your ships will be in the sea in middle of the islands (or somewhere else where only my artys can hit).Omega wrote:- Arty isn't that good versus ships unless you've hoarded it. If you hoard it like that, you're literally asking for someone with F-14s to rape it. Also, you're vulnerable to someone with a little bit of arty that's going to target yours, which any wing can do.
This is more difficult to do than you make it sound. Boats are clumpsy as shit. Also your docs will be in range for arty and in almost every case howitzers too..Omega wrote:- Docks are like hospitals for ships. They're good, and heal ships, which have a ton of HP anyway, and which can be moved out of line of fire if they happen to be getting too damaged.
I will admit I didn't think of that walls are a lot worse on tournament, but I still think you should be able to save your wall with citz and constant remaking of walls against tridents. At least long enough for you to take advantage of winning shore.Omega wrote:On walls being a magical shield against everything
IMO winning shore is a slow prosess. Starts out with one guy loosing more docs/siege than the other and the one guy galning momentum. Here as with walls you are constantly repairing/rebuilding whatever is getting hit. Here pockets nukes can do wonders and totally shift the battle.Omega wrote:On winning shore:
- You win shore because your opponent is dead or has otherwise epically failed.
You will be surprised how much arty-shots a howitzer with hp+morale+strat hero can tank. Also this is nr 60 so you will have about 30f11 (or more) from your boom is done til the fights actually happens which gives you plenty of time to glitch many strategy heroes so you can abuse this even more. Also I'm almost certain this allows your arty to be hit once more from enemy artys. At least they do in p2n's where everyone used siege hp over siege ROF.Omega wrote:I think the most important rebuttal here is this quote from you:Siege HP: the most worthless bonus ever known (OK, so it's about even with all the other worthless bonuses). Unless you're playing Middle DM, which we're not here.Wing civ would have siege ad/range/att/hp [emphasis added]
Maybe.Omega wrote:I think this conclusively demonstrates you haven't thought this through much, or your experience doesn't count at all.