Politics: Obama vs Romney

[assys]

Ok so I have just watched some of the Obama-supporters talk. Their script is just empty and all they try to do is building up some sort of emotional connection to as many people as possible by mentioning family love etc. Also if you read something about their campaigns every candidates most important issues seem to be concerning with gay marriage, abortion and other very unimportant "issues".

So here we go, americas economy is most likely on its downfall and people still people do not start thinking about real problems to for example increase their living standard or in the first case avoid having it decreased?

For me as an european (stating that since there are some differences comparing americans to europeans, the value of freedom for example) it is not possible to actually imagine whats going on in the minds of that country which leads me to my question. Is the majority of that country plain dumb or did i not get something right here?

Im not trying to attack anyone here btw. Theres dumb and intelligent people in every country also how can you actually consider somone intelligent or dumb blablabla. I just like to come to conclusions and here there is noone to me. And if the majority of that country is not educated why could they in the first place even build up an economy like that? Or do they have a lack of education lately? (recent decades)

[Omega]

American politics is kind of like this (VAST, VAST, VAST OVERSIMPLIFICATION. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED):
Group A, who votes for party X just because they're party X and they generally agree with party X.

Group B, who strongly believes in party X's platform, and thus votes for party X. These are the people who won't vote if a candidate doesn't pander to minor issues they care about.

Independent voters (Group C), which is a fairly small group, and (generally) attempts to vote based on the merits of issues that matter.

There are other parties, but they don't matter. It's a two party system.

The few things that will get Group A not to vote for a candidate are:
-They don't show up to vote because they're not motivated.
-There's some scandal involving the candidate and/or they think the candidate is unlikable.
-Other random trivial shit that usually has nothing to do with the merits of who would do a better job in office

The really only thing that will get Group B not to vote for a candidate they would otherwise support is that candidate disagreeing with that group on a certain issue, or not pandering hard enough to them over that issue. Alternatively, you can think of this as said group only supporting candidates who are for/against X,Y,Z issues.

So what you get is a campaign where 95+% of the message from either side is effectively nonsense that no one who was trying to pick based on legitimate shit would actually care about, because the vast majority of voters don't actually try and select the best candidate, not really. They pick someone who they like, and who agrees with them (or says they agree with them) on their pet issues.

[Arntzen]

Firstly:
From a Norwegian's point of view Republicans are FAAAAR to the right on the scale, Democrats are pretty much what we in Norway call "The Right Party" and where I'm standing is somewhere in the middle of our politics. Meaning a good step LEFT of the democrats. Naturally I choose the closest one to my own, even tho it really is hard to compare the two.

Secondly:
I see you brought up a lot of the issues they've been talking about and I'll put my opinion on most of them.

Also if you read something about their campaigns every candidates most important issues seem to be concerning with gay marriage, abortion and other very unimportant "issues".

UNIMPORTANT???? So if a women get's raped, she doesn't only have to deal with that, but also she's forced to have the baby if she gets pregnant? IT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT, and I blame religions.
Gay marriage... I hope one day we'll stop calling it "gay marriage" and start calling it just "marriage". They are humans, they SHOULD have the same rights as all other humans in the same country, end of discussion IMO.

So here we go, americas economy is most likely on its downfall and people still people do not start thinking about real problems to for example increase their living standard or in the first case avoid having it decreased?

For me as an european it is not possible to actually imagine whats going on in the minds of that country which leads me to my question. Is the majority of that country plain dumb or did i not get something right here?

The way I see it: Obama was given a horrible economy, he had to clean up so much and people are naive if they think something like that can be fixed over night. Yes he said "yes we can" and promised a ton of things, yes he haven't done all he promised. BUT that's how politics work, everyone lies. It's what they have to do in this "four year politic"-system. If he before the election 4 years ago said: "Our economy is so fucked it will take at least 20 years to fix it all", he wouldn't have gotten a single vote.

Also, have you seen Romney's plan on how to fix the economy? I mean he's going to strengthen the military for billions, he'll get rid of health-care (Obama-care as he calls it) and give rich people tax cut. I mean in my opinion that's going to go the opposite direction.


Other things I think will effect the election, the First Lady-speeches we're MILES in Obama's favor, Bill Clinton did an awesome job with his fatherly figure being funny then going straight to: "NOW listen:".
Romney trying to put Obama in bad light after the attack on USA's embassy, is also going to go in Obama's favor after reading newspapers it has already backfired on him.

Then again, I've not been following USA's politics much so I might be very wrong on most of these things. Just saying it as how it looks from my point of view.

[assys]

UNIMPORTANT???? So if a women get's raped, she doesn't only have to deal with that, but also she's forced to have the baby if she gets pregnant? IT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT, and I blame religions.
Gay marriage... I hope one day we'll stop calling it "gay marriage" and start calling it just "marriage". They are humans, they SHOULD have the same rights as all other humans in the same country, end of discussion IMO.

Unimportant compared to economical problems the USA have to face. I don't know if i really have to name any further subjects that are also more important. Not more important to me but more important since more people are affected by decisions made concerning these topics.


@omega,
So the american president campaign is all about pure populism. I wonder why this has come so far in america?

[ben55]

reagan-ism and his proteges that believed in it did a lot of damage to the united states tbh. not saying democrats like clinton or obama are amazing, but i believe that is where it started and what caused the most damage.

as for why the united states is stupid? idk maybe because the average citizen cares more about winning the Olympics than the slipping education, infrastructure and economic systems.

i bet over half of american citizens couldn't even say who lived on 1600 Pennsylvania ave

[Captain Nemo]

Firstly:
From a Norwegian's point of view Republicans are FAAAAR to the right on the scale, Democrats are pretty much what we in Norway call "The Right Party" and where I'm standing is somewhere in the middle of our politics. Meaning a good step LEFT of the democrats. Naturally I choose the closest one to my own, even tho it really is hard to compare the two.

lol so true! Then again, scandinavia is the home for very socialist countries. Funny tho, we all have extremely high living standards so it must work (hmm actually unsure if sweden is falling behind there...)

But the low tax, freedom, american dream thing is what makes america extraordinary in the first place. But to a Dane it is simply impossible to understand how u can vote for the republicans. I mean, that thing about women's body have a way of shutting down and rejecting sperm if they get raped? That's just a bad joke lol, and I know it's not the official position of the party, but it's lurking in the background of the party nontheless. Thing about not teaching about evolution? lol omfg. These are the stories that are basically just frightening. Why are they so eager to take steps back. These are just a couple of cases where it looks like they are doing the exact same thing muslims are. Letting religion control them. Fewer rights for women (yes u are far behind in women equality, or w/e thats called). Controlling the schools, putting science aside and have faith replace it. All easier to keep a population in check that way, less enlightment. Just believe. What a load of crap.

Thankfully it hasn't gone that far but it seems thats what some are aiming for, without actually realizing it.

Anyway thats just how it's seen from this perspective and please do correct me where Im wrong. Im not trying to insult usa btw, just some of the most extreme republican views.

[P-51]

So here we go, americas economy is most likely on its downfall and people still people do not start thinking about real problems to for example increase their living standard or in the first case avoid having it decreased?

This is what endlessly bothers me, rarely will people talk about how serious our economic problems are (I've never heard Obama mention our debt...probably because a good portion of it is his fault), but instead they insist on talking about non issues like abortion and gay marriage.

So the american president campaign is all about pure populism. I wonder why this has come so far in america?

Because we only have two political parties that get decent exposure and it is impossible to accommodate an entire half of the political spectrum. It seems that alot of people here forget what the purpose of political parties are. Instead of being an institution that represents a specific cause they have become an exclusive platform that only gives aristocrats a chance to get elected.

But the low tax, freedom, american dream thing is what makes america extraordinary in the first place. But to a Dane it is simply impossible to understand how u can vote for the republicans. I mean, that thing about women's body have a way of shutting down and rejecting sperm if they get raped? That's just a bad joke lol, and I know it's not the official position of the party, but it's lurking in the background of the party nontheless. Thing about not teaching about evolution? lol omfg. These are the stories that are basically just frightening. Why are they so eager to take steps back. These are just a couple of cases where it looks like they are doing the exact same thing muslims are. Letting religion control them. Fewer rights for women (yes u are far behind in women equality, or w/e thats called). Controlling the schools, putting science aside and have faith replace it. All easier to keep a population in check that way, less enlightment. Just believe. What a load of crap.

Here is an example of that. This is an awful generalization of Republicans, the only people that actively support this stuff are the ultra-Christians that are obnoxious enough to bring their religious influences into politics. The only generalization that works here is the "less enlightenment" part, and this equally applies to the Democratic Party as much as it does to the Republican Party.

[Captain Nemo]

which is why u are in desperate need of more parties P-51. Then u can kick those extremists out of republican party and they can form their own. So u have a clear profile. I realise romney is concidered to be more to the left than the average republican...

but thx for clearing it up, Im just throwing stuff out there to see reactions.

[eeralf_]

I'am very closed to nemo's good post, but more extremely so i dont post here details ., cuz it happend a catasthrophe like the muslim video

P-51, when the mighty president of the migthy country of the world believe on creatism, so what should europs think about?, maybe he doesnt, but he say it, i mean Bush, and sry rep's need the votes of this fuck fanatism (it mean believe on Creatism) christs, that is 30% of USA, sry

i dont say obama is perfect, never, but 1000% better like the other

[Arntzen]

Here is an example of that. This is an awful generalization of Republicans, the only people that actively support this stuff are the ultra-Christians that are obnoxious enough to bring their religious influences into politics. The only generalization that works here is the "less enlightenment" part, and this equally applies to the Democratic Party as much as it does to the Republican Party.

"President Bush invigorated proponents of teaching alternatives to evolution in public schools with remarks saying that schoolchildren should be taught about "intelligent design," a view of creation that challenges established scientific thinking and promotes the idea that an unseen force is behind the development of humanity."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01686.html

He want "intelligent design" in science class, nuff said.

[eeralf_]

damn good research kazter, i read this article

and btw: p-51, when i elect a gouverment that the head's like this?, hmm, so 90% can other ways, but the Head's have the control

and see USA used Billions of dollars for Weapons, u know what one Carrier cost? at a year?, but the education and scientific get few, i cant believe it work, and what Bush sayed in this article, lol, he spent(d) on education but wrong side

[P-51]

which is why u are in desperate need of more parties P-51. Then u can kick those extremists out of republican party and they can form their own. So u have a clear profile. I realise romney is concidered to be more to the left than the average republican...

Yes I agree entirely. The current RP and DP should be split into at least two new parties and the other four major parties we have that nobody wants to talk about should get equal exposure.

I'am very closed to nemo's good post, but more extremely so i dont post here details ., cuz it happend a catasthrophe like the muslim video

P-51, when the mighty president of the migthy country of the world believe on creatism, so what should europs think about?, maybe he doesnt, but he say it, i mean Bush, and sry rep's need the votes of this fuck fanatism (it mean believe on Creatism) christs, that is 30% of USA, sry

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say Ralf. But just because somebody is a Christian doesn't mean that they are Republican. And just because somebody is a Christian and a Republican doesn't mean that they don't believe in teaching evolution and stuff like that.

[Ghost]

American politics is kind of like this (VAST, VAST, VAST OVERSIMPLIFICATION. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED):
All your vote will do is change very, very little in terms of your day to day life. The American government is too powerful and too corrupt that no matter who gets elected we will never be able to make great leaps forward as a society. It doesn't matter what party does what because no politician prioritizes the interests of the majority. It's more like, pick the candidate that has the smaller chance of ruining the country.

Fixed.

[P-51]

Universal suffrage is one of the worst things that ever happened to this country.

[eeralf_]

u mean a black or handycap peoples cant vote?

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or a poor who live in getto?