Mid dm

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P-51
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Re: Mid dm

Post by P-51 »

So macro = this?

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D55
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Re: Mid dm

Post by D55 »

what everyone has to understand as far as mod dm no rules vs mid dm no rules, i agree, mod dm takes more skill because of the many more combinations you can use, if you compare it to mid dm no r.s its all about macro just as p 51 has in his little art, no seige enables a huge rock paper scissers element in the setting which most settings do not have, the combinations in mid dm no seige is countless and in team games before the no tribute patch, 4v4 mid dm no seige def takes a lot of skill to master, but i understand that most of you never got into mid dm no seige when it was at its peak, most of you would probaly think that massing knights is the best strat, even though walls could easily counter that. in fact, no seige is the biggest army control element because in your civs with catas , you have to use them differently than your archers, as in a setting like indy dm, you can group your bombards and dragoons together and use in the same contol.

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Re: Mid dm

Post by Captain Nemo »

I usually say macro is micro on a large scale. A great example of macro is how you try to create a very wide front line where you try not to clump your units for example. You can micro a big bunch of sieges well, but if your opponent macroes well you'll just hit a few of his units at a time and at some point you're gonna lose a big (if not all) part of your siege group. flanking is another part of macro, but it's basically just used in order to avoid units with area damage.

Your example P-51 would be a sort of macro yes, except running back and forth would be micro so it's somewhat of a mixture. As you're not fighting area damage though the macro is not really that important compared to when u are, but I guess an okay example of the mid dm macro. Anyway I would recommend having ca and persians mixed up so u don't have all persian on one side and all ca on the other. Also I hope this is not how you play, since not grouping the hero with cata's or at least having it within range of cata's would be a huge mistake.

d555killer:
Although making different groups does sound like a big challange I would like to add that I use 3 groups for each "group" goon/siege I have, as I want to be able to move the bombards/goons without having to move it all, while I also wanna move them all sometimes which makes 3 groups. Now I normally use 2 groups of goon/bombards so that'd mean using 6 groups for indy dm. I don't see the hard in the way you use different groups in mid dm though. You have a ranged group that basically all u have to do is move forward and make them fire. then u have a fast group of cata's and their job is in making out the "hp" of your ranged units that are the attackers. basically just move them about infront of ur attackers try to avoid losing too many by moving some back to heal a little.
And whats with the huge rock paper scisser? I mean MOST setts have that, and what makes it so huge?
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Re: Mid dm

Post by peow130 »

Mod DM is much easier.
Planes allow for unbalanced destruction of tanks, siege, inf, etc etc..
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Re: Mid dm

Post by P-51 »

Captain Nemo wrote:Anyway I would recommend having ca and persians mixed up so u don't have all persian on one side and all ca on the other. Also I hope this is not how you play, since not grouping the hero with cata's or at least having it within range of cata's would be a huge mistake.
Yeah you are supposed to do that but for the sake of my drawing I didn't want to include all of it.

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Re: Mid dm

Post by Omega »

Serious part:

@P51, yeah, that would be in part, macro. Obviously there's some micro involved in that situation as well, and obviously your diagram greatly simplifies what's actually occurring in-game. I'd even say certain points in the unsimplified process are too hard to categorize into either micro or macro, since they exist on a continuum.


Non-serious part because it's just too stupid:
peow130 wrote:Mod DM is much easier.
Planes allow for unbalanced destruction of tanks, siege, inf, etc etc..
I don't know if it's possible to say something dumber than that. It's fractally wrong, and as such it's hard to even address its wrongness. As such... I'll keep it to some obvious points:

-Land players can make Anti-air buildings, stinger soldiers, and flak halftracks. Although the last two are kinda crap in most instances. They can also make Isthar gates. Hell, they can even make airports and some f-15s. It's not difficult for them to fit in some great building bonuses for AA and/or great f-15 bonuses.

-Air players die unless they're in pocket or the map is too damn big or the opposition is too damn noob. If they're in the pocket position, it means each side has the same number of pockets, all of which are going air. This is the opposite of unbalanced, especially once we start to consider these guys can make f-15s as a supplement to bombers. Hell, they can make f-15s exclusively even though that's a pretty bad idea...

-You can survive against bombers without making any air, or getting any anti-air support from an ally if you're actually good at Modern DM.
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Re: Mid dm

Post by Warrior_Kings Chase »

lol this is becoming a good topic to talk about lol. :). mid dm vs mod dm classic. i am liking all of use fighting about whichone better. i am feeling the love in the air. :) lol

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Re: Mid dm

Post by peow130 »

MAWD SUKS.
PLANEZ SUKS.
Imho, it's my opinion that bombers are REALLY powerful. And because of this, i've found that enough bombers WILL kill AA and flak, with no problems whatsoever..
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Re: Mid dm

Post by Ghost »

You obviously have never tried bombing mass AA when the enemy has an Ishtar. It can easily tear 50 bombers to shreds. Flaks on the other hand suck because if you're retarded and group them together it takes no more than 10 bombers with a minor area damage upgrade to take out 30 Flaks.
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Re: Mid dm

Post by lightnessking. »

still.. 100 anti air in close area will own mass bombers, they won't even reach the AA basicly because it's 5-10 kills / shot for the massive AA, maybe 5 AA dies, adding an Isthar and it will be 0.
You cannot make another post so soon after your last.

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Re: Mid dm

Post by peow130 »

Ghost wrote:You obviously have never tried bombing mass AA when the enemy has an Ishtar. It can easily tear 50 bombers to shreds. Flaks on the other hand suck because if you're retarded and group them together it takes no more than 10 bombers with a minor area damage upgrade to take out 30 Flaks.
i have, and i've gotten through those AA to the isthar.. lol..
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Re: Mid dm

Post by taco »

peow130 wrote:
Ghost wrote:You obviously have never tried bombing mass AA when the enemy has an Ishtar. It can easily tear 50 bombers to shreds. Flaks on the other hand suck because if you're retarded and group them together it takes no more than 10 bombers with a minor area damage upgrade to take out 30 Flaks.
i have, and i've gotten through those AA to the isthar.. lol..
^^ tuff guy

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Re: Mid dm

Post by Captain Nemo »

lol peow u still crying about me using bombers vs your zookrush? Any good mod dm'er can take out bombers. That doesn't mean bombers are bad or anything, but they're definitely not invincible as you imply. If I fight someone with alot of bombers I normally expand aa and keep a group of like 20 flaks grouped with hero just behind my front line, which helps kill the bombers faster, and I don't have to place my aa guns as close. Besides why do you think people get fighters? Because they are the true counter to bombers!
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peow130
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Re: Mid dm

Post by peow130 »

Nah, all you did was counter me, lol.
Marines and tanks and siege vs. zookrush marines win

Actually, the true counter to bombers/planes SHOULD be AA..
Hence the name "Anti Aircraft Guns"..
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Re: Mid dm

Post by Captain Nemo »

no peow I did not have counter, u had counter to me. Because your zookrush was such a bad one and u failed to mix in some aa and/or fighters you lost. AA aren't supposed to beat the crap out of bombers at all, that would make air useless. The balance is good. I spent a heck of alot ress on bombers the game vs u peow, probably around 5k iron/gold, and don't tell me u spent the same amounts on aa nor anything near that and u did not control ur stuff well. It's like grens kill dragoons in indy, but if you don't handle your grens well enough u're gonna lose to the goons.
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