Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

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lightnessking.
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Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by lightnessking. »

Hello and welcome to the first Empire Earth in depth post I make. The purpose of this is getting more knowledge in Empire Earth. This will be the first "research" post I make, and I'm not sure if people have done this before but I don't care :).

This topic will explain the "attack multipliers" of certain units, and how their armor upgrades work.

To start with this, we have to know how armor works. Which is rather simple and as expected. If you got 5 armor on a certain perk (arrow, shock, gun whatsoever.) it will reduce 5 damage of the attack type. Quite straight forward I'd say. However, does this affect the multiplier ? No, It does not.

Every unit type has an attack multiplier when fighting other units. For example a dragoon has a 3.0 attack multiplier when fighting an imperial cuirassier, meaning it would do 3x as much damage than the dragoon's attack statistics (default = 65) would say. In this case 195. However, the imperial cuirassier has 31 armor, therefore the resulting damage will be 164. If armor would be calculated before the multiplier, it would have been like 65 (dragoons attack) minus 31 (imperials gun armor) = 34 damage. 34 * 3.0 = 102. Which is 62 less damage than what it actually is.

This is a basic explanation of how armor works, and how multipliers work. Below this sentence shows a list of common units and their multipliers. This list will expand in the coming days as I will run more tests than what I've done now.


* *.* multipliers are yet to be filled in, it will be edited in the upcoming days.
When units attack Citizens

EE Heaven games:

Citizens in Pre-Industrial attack seems to ignore the target unit's armor, so logically they don't do a regular damage type as is implied by their attack animations. So while a citizen appears to be using a spear [Prehistoric-Middle] or bow [Renaissance-Industrial], only in WW1 to Nano does the citizen do damage correlative to these attack types. Without extensive testing, it's impossible to tell whether certain units have resistance to citizen attack, but with current information, assume that citizens do their prescribed damage according to attack only in Pre-Industrial, gun damage in other ages. Citizens also appear to have small attack multipliers against some units.


Multipliers and the units who belong to it:

* 0.5
Units:


* 1.0
Units


* 1.5
Units


* 2.0
Units:



Middle Age units

The longsword attack will be multiplied when fighting the following units.

* 1.5 when fighting a longsword
* *.* when fighting a viking
* *.* when fighting a barbarian
* 1.5 when fighting a cavalry archer
* 1.0 when fighting a knight
* *.* when fighting a persian
* *.* when fighting a cataphract
* *.* when fighting a balista
* *.* when fighting a trebuchet
* *.* when fighting a crossbow
* *.* when fighting a longbow
* *.* when attacking a building

The cavalry archer attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* 1.0 when fighting a longsword
* *.* when fighting a viking
* *.* when fighting a barbarian
* 1.0 when fighting a cavalry archer
* 1.5 when fighting a knight
* *.* when fighting a persian
* *.* when fighting a cataphract
* *.* when fighting a balista
* *.* when fighting a trebuchet
* *.* when fighting a crossbow
* *.* when fighting a longbow
* *.* when attacking a building

The knight attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* 3.0 when fighting a longsword
* *.* when fighting a viking
* *.* when fighting a barbarian
* 1.0 when fighting a cavalry archer
* *.* when fighting a knight
* *.* when fighting a persian
* *.* when fighting a cataphract
* *.* when fighting a balista
* *.* when fighting a trebuchet
* *.* when fighting a crossbow
* *.* when fighting a longbow
* *.* when attacking a building

The persian attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a longsword
* *.* when fighting a viking
* *.* when fighting a barbarian
* *.* when fighting a cavalry archer
* *.* when fighting a knight
* *.* when fighting a persian
* *.* when fighting a cataphract
* *.* when fighting a balista
* *.* when fighting a trebuchet
* *.* when fighting a crossbow
* *.* when fighting a longbow
* *.* when attacking a building

The viking attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a longsword
* *.* when fighting a viking
* *.* when fighting a barbarian
* *.* when fighting a cavalry archer
* *.* when fighting a knight
* *.* when fighting a persian
* *.* when fighting a cataphract
* *.* when fighting a balista
* *.* when fighting a trebuchet
* *.* when fighting a crossbow
* *.* when fighting a longbow
* *.* when attacking a building

The barbarian attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a longsword
* *.* when fighting a viking
* *.* when fighting a barbarian
* *.* when fighting a cavalry archer
* *.* when fighting a knight
* *.* when fighting a persian
* *.* when fighting a cataphract
* *.* when fighting a balista
* *.* when fighting a trebuchet
* *.* when fighting a crossbow
* *.* when fighting a longbow
* *.* when attacking a building

The cataphract attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a longsword
* *.* when fighting a viking
* *.* when fighting a barbarian
* *.* when fighting a cavalry archer
* *.* when fighting a knight
* *.* when fighting a persian
* *.* when fighting a cataphract
* *.* when fighting a balista
* *.* when fighting a trebuchet
* *.* when fighting a crossbow
* *.* when fighting a longbow
* *.* when attacking a building

The balista attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a longsword
* *.* when fighting a viking
* *.* when fighting a barbarian
* *.* when fighting a cavalry archer
* *.* when fighting a knight
* *.* when fighting a persian
* *.* when fighting a cataphract
* *.* when fighting a balista
* *.* when fighting a trebuchet
* *.* when fighting a crossbow
* *.* when fighting a longbow
* *.* when attacking a building

The trebuchet attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a longsword
* *.* when fighting a viking
* *.* when fighting a barbarian
* *.* when fighting a cavalry archer
* *.* when fighting a knight
* *.* when fighting a persian
* *.* when fighting a cataphract
* *.* when fighting a balista
* *.* when fighting a trebuchet
* *.* when fighting a crossbow
* *.* when fighting a longbow
* *.* when attacking a building

The crossbow attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a longsword
* *.* when fighting a viking
* *.* when fighting a barbarian
* *.* when fighting a cavalry archer
* *.* when fighting a knight
* *.* when fighting a persian
* *.* when fighting a cataphract
* *.* when fighting a balista
* *.* when fighting a trebuchet
* *.* when fighting a crossbow
* *.* when fighting a longbow
* *.* when attacking a building

The longbow attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a longsword
* *.* when fighting a viking
* *.* when fighting a barbarian
* *.* when fighting a cavalry archer
* *.* when fighting a knight
* *.* when fighting a persian
* *.* when fighting a cataphract
* *.* when fighting a balista
* *.* when fighting a trebuchet
* *.* when fighting a crossbow
* *.* when fighting a longbow
* *.* when attacking a building

The ram attack will be multiplied by *.* when attacking a building.

note: siege towers/pilums and pikeman are not included, since they are either a bad unit to make or cannot attack at all.



Industrial Age units

The grenadier attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a grenadier
* *.* when fighting a halbedier
* *.* when fighting a elite guard
* *.* when fighting a sharp shooter
* *.* when fighting a dragoon
* *.* when fighting a imperial cuirasseer
* *.* when fighting a bronze cannon
* *.* when fighting a serpentine
* *.* when fighting a bombard
* *.* when attacking a building

The halbedier attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a grenadier
* *.* when fighting a halbedier
* *.* when fighting a elite guard
* *.* when fighting a sharp shooter
* *.* when fighting a dragoon
* *.* when fighting a imperial cuirasseer
* *.* when fighting a bronze cannon
* *.* when fighting a serpentine
* *.* when fighting a bombard
* *.* when attacking a building

The elite guard attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a grenadier
* *.* when fighting a halbedier
* *.* when fighting a elite guard
* *.* when fighting a sharp shooter
* *.* when fighting a dragoon
* *.* when fighting a imperial cuirasseer
* *.* when fighting a bronze cannon
* *.* when fighting a serpentine
* *.* when fighting a bombard
* *.* when attacking a building

The sharp shooter attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a grenadier
* *.* when fighting a halbedier
* *.* when fighting a elite guard
* *.* when fighting a sharp shooter
* *.* when fighting a dragoon
* *.* when fighting a imperial cuirasseer
* *.* when fighting a bronze cannon
* *.* when fighting a serpentine
* *.* when fighting a bombard
* *.* when attacking a building


The dragoon attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a grenadier
* *.* when fighting a halbedier
* *.* when fighting a elite guard
* *.* when fighting a sharp shooter
* *.* when fighting a dragoon
* *.* when fighting a imperial cuirasseer
* *.* when fighting a bronze cannon
* *.* when fighting a serpentine
* *.* when fighting a bombard
* *.* when attacking a building

The imperial cuirasseer attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a grenadier
* *.* when fighting a halbedier
* *.* when fighting a elite guard
* *.* when fighting a sharp shooter
* *.* when fighting a dragoon
* *.* when fighting a imperial cuirasseer
* *.* when fighting a bronze cannon
* *.* when fighting a serpentine
* *.* when fighting a bombard
* *.* when attacking a building

The bronze cannon attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a grenadier
* *.* when fighting a halbedier
* *.* when fighting a elite guard
* *.* when fighting a sharp shooter
* *.* when fighting a dragoon
* *.* when fighting a imperial cuirasseer
* *.* when fighting a bronze cannon
* *.* when fighting a serpentine
* *.* when fighting a bombard
* *.* when attacking a building

The serpentine attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a grenadier
* *.* when fighting a halbedier
* *.* when fighting a elite guard
* *.* when fighting a sharp shooter
* *.* when fighting a dragoon
* *.* when fighting a imperial cuirasseer
* *.* when fighting a bronze cannon
* *.* when fighting a serpentine
* *.* when fighting a bombard
* *.* when attacking a building

The bombard attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a grenadier
* *.* when fighting a halbedier
* *.* when fighting a elite guard
* *.* when fighting a sharp shooter
* *.* when fighting a dragoon
* *.* when fighting a imperial cuirasseer
* *.* when fighting a bronze cannon
* *.* when fighting a serpentine
* *.* when fighting a bombard
* *.* when attacking a building

note: partisans, medics and hand cannoneers are not included, since they are either a bad unit to make or cannot attack at all.

Exceptions are made when:
Partisans – when fighting versus air units
Hand cannoneers – when teching to WW1, and upgrading to mortars.



Modern Age units

note: Modern age brings a new concept of war; air units. It will be hard to calculate the damage done on units and buildings by bombers, but I will do my best to make it as accurate as possible.
I’m not sure if an anti air unit has different multipliers versus the different air types (fighters, fighter-bombers, bombers and helicopters.) but I will edit the layout of this is the case.


The marine attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a marine
* *.* when fighting a bazooka
* *.* when fighting a heavy mortar
* *.* when fighting a stinger soldier
* *.* when fighting a sniper
* *.* when fighting a machine gunner
* *.* when fighting a flame thrower
* *.* when fighting a m1 tank
* *.* when fighting a leopard tank
* *.* when fighting a flak half track
* *.* when fighting a howitzer
* *.* when fighting an artillery
* *.* when fighting an anti-tank
* *.* when fighting an anti-tank helicopter
* *.* when fighting an gunship helicopter
* *.* when fighting an seaking helicopter
* *.* when fighting an transport helicopter
* *.* when attacking a building

Not capable of attacking the following air units:

F117-fighter/bomber
F14-fighter/bomber
F15-fighter
b2-bomber
b52-bomber
A10-anti tank

The bazooka attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a marine
* *.* when fighting a bazooka
* *.* when fighting a heavy mortar
* *.* when fighting a stinger soldier
* *.* when fighting a sniper
* *.* when fighting a machine gunner
* *.* when fighting a flame thrower
* *.* when fighting a m1 tank
* *.* when fighting a leopard tank
* *.* when fighting a flak half track
* *.* when fighting a howitzer
* *.* when fighting an artillery
* *.* when fighting an anti-tank
* *.* when attacking a building

Not capable of attacking the following air units:

F117-fighter/bomber
F14-fighter/bomber
F15-fighter
b2-bomber
b52-bomber
A10-anti tank
Anti-tank helicopter
Gunship helicopter
Seaking helicopter
Transport helicopter

The heavy mortar attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a marine
* *.* when fighting a bazooka
* *.* when fighting a heavy mortar
* *.* when fighting a stinger soldier
* *.* when fighting a sniper
* *.* when fighting a machine gunner
* *.* when fighting a flame thrower
* *.* when fighting a m1 tank
* *.* when fighting a leopard tank
* *.* when fighting a flak half track
* *.* when fighting a howitzer
* *.* when fighting an artillery
* *.* when fighting an anti-tank
* *.* when attacking a building

Not capable of attacking the following air units:

F117-fighter/bomber
F14-fighter/bomber
F15-fighter
b2-bomber
b52-bomber
A10-anti tank
Anti-tank helicopter
Gunship helicopter
Seaking helicopter
Transport helicopter

The heavy mortar attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a marine
* *.* when fighting a bazooka
* *.* when fighting a heavy mortar
* *.* when fighting a stinger soldier
* *.* when fighting a sniper
* *.* when fighting a machine gunner
* *.* when fighting a flame thrower
* *.* when fighting a m1 tank
* *.* when fighting a leopard tank
* *.* when fighting a flak half track
* *.* when fighting a howitzer
* *.* when fighting an artillery
* *.* when fighting an anti-tank
* *.* when attacking a building

Not capable of attacking the following air units:

F117-fighter/bomber
F14-fighter/bomber
F15-fighter
b2-bomber
b52-bomber
A10-anti tank
Anti-tank helicopter
Gunship helicopter
Seaking helicopter
Transport helicopter

The stinger soldier attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following air-units.

* *.* when fighting a F117-fighter/bomber
* *.* when fighting a F14-fighter/bomber
* *.* when fighting a F15-fighter
* *.* when fighting a B2-bomber
* *.* when fighting a B52-bomber
* *.* when fighting a A10-anti tank
* *.* when fighting a Anti-tank helicopter
* *.* when fighting a Gunship helicopter
* *.* when fighting a Seaking helicopter
* *.* when fighting a Transport helicopter

Not capable of attacking the following units:
Any ground units, naval units and buildings.

The sniper attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a marine
* *.* when fighting a bazooka
* *.* when fighting a heavy mortar
* *.* when fighting a stinger soldier
* *.* when fighting a sniper
* *.* when fighting a machine gunner
* *.* when fighting a flame thrower
* *.* when fighting a m1 tank
* *.* when fighting a leopard tank
* *.* when fighting a flak half track
* *.* when fighting a howitzer
* *.* when fighting an artillery
* *.* when fighting an anti-tank
* *.* when attacking a building

Not capable of attacking the following air units:

F117-fighter/bomber
F14-fighter/bomber
F15-fighter
b2-bomber
b52-bomber
A10-anti tank
Anti-tank helicopter
Gunship helicopter
Seaking helicopter
Transport helicopter

The machine gunner attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a marine
* *.* when fighting a bazooka
* *.* when fighting a heavy mortar
* *.* when fighting a stinger soldier
* *.* when fighting a sniper
* *.* when fighting a machine gunner
* *.* when fighting a flame thrower
* *.* when fighting a m1 tank
* *.* when fighting a leopard tank
* *.* when fighting a flak half track
* *.* when fighting a howitzer
* *.* when fighting an artillery
* *.* when fighting an anti-tank
* *.* when attacking a building

Not capable of attacking the following air units:

F117-fighter/bomber
F14-fighter/bomber
F15-fighter
b2-bomber
b52-bomber
A10-anti tank
Anti-tank helicopter
Gunship helicopter
Seaking helicopter
Transport helicopter

The flame thrower attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a marine
* *.* when fighting a bazooka
* *.* when fighting a heavy mortar
* *.* when fighting a stinger soldier
* *.* when fighting a sniper
* *.* when fighting a machine gunner
* *.* when fighting a flame thrower
* *.* when fighting a m1 tank
* *.* when fighting a leopard tank
* *.* when fighting a flak half track
* *.* when fighting a howitzer
* *.* when fighting an artillery
* *.* when fighting an anti-tank
* *.* when attacking a building

Not capable of attacking the following air units:

F117-fighter/bomber
F14-fighter/bomber
F15-fighter
b2-bomber
b52-bomber
A10-anti tank
Anti-tank helicopter
Gunship helicopter
Seaking helicopter
Transport helicopter

The m1 tank attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a marine
* *.* when fighting a bazooka
* *.* when fighting a heavy mortar
* *.* when fighting a stinger soldier
* *.* when fighting a sniper
* *.* when fighting a machine gunner
* *.* when fighting a flame thrower
* *.* when fighting a m1 tank
* *.* when fighting a leopard tank
* *.* when fighting a flak half track
* *.* when fighting a howitzer
* *.* when fighting an artillery
* *.* when fighting an anti-tank
* *.* when attacking a building

Not capable of attacking the following air units:

F117-fighter/bomber
F14-fighter/bomber
F15-fighter
b2-bomber
b52-bomber
A10-anti tank
Anti-tank helicopter
Gunship helicopter
Seaking helicopter
Transport helicopter

The leopard tank attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a marine
* *.* when fighting a bazooka
* *.* when fighting a heavy mortar
* *.* when fighting a stinger soldier
* *.* when fighting a sniper
* *.* when fighting a machine gunner
* *.* when fighting a flame thrower
* *.* when fighting a m1 tank
* *.* when fighting a leopard tank
* *.* when fighting a flak half track
* *.* when fighting a howitzer
* *.* when fighting an artillery
* *.* when fighting an anti-tank
* *.* when attacking a building

Not capable of attacking the following air units:

F117-fighter/bomber
F14-fighter/bomber
F15-fighter
b2-bomber
b52-bomber
A10-anti tank
Anti-tank helicopter
Gunship helicopter
Seaking helicopter
Transport helicopter

The flak halftrack attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following air-units.

* *.* when fighting a F117-fighter/bomber
* *.* when fighting a F14-fighter/bomber
* *.* when fighting a F15-fighter
* *.* when fighting a B2-bomber
* *.* when fighting a B52-bomber
* *.* when fighting a A10-anti tank
* *.* when fighting a Anti-tank helicopter
* *.* when fighting a Gunship helicopter
* *.* when fighting a Seaking helicopter
* *.* when fighting a Transport helicopter

Not capable of attacking the following units:
Any ground units, naval units and buildings.

The howitzer attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a marine
* *.* when fighting a bazooka
* *.* when fighting a heavy mortar
* *.* when fighting a stinger soldier
* *.* when fighting a sniper
* *.* when fighting a machine gunner
* *.* when fighting a flame thrower
* *.* when fighting a m1 tank
* *.* when fighting a leopard tank
* *.* when fighting a flak half track
* *.* when fighting a howitzer
* *.* when fighting an artillery
* *.* when fighting an anti-tank
* *.* when attacking a building

Not capable of attacking the following air units:

F117-fighter/bomber
F14-fighter/bomber
F15-fighter
B2-bomber
B52-bomber
A10-anti tank
Anti-tank helicopter
Gunship helicopter
Seaking helicopter
Transport helicopter

The artillery attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a marine
* *.* when fighting a bazooka
* *.* when fighting a heavy mortar
* *.* when fighting a stinger soldier
* *.* when fighting a sniper
* *.* when fighting a machine gunner
* *.* when fighting a flame thrower
* *.* when fighting a m1 tank
* *.* when fighting a leopard tank
* *.* when fighting a flak half track
* *.* when fighting a howitzer
* *.* when fighting an artillery
* *.* when fighting an anti-tank
* *.* when attacking a building

Not capable of attacking the following air units:

F117-fighter/bomber
F14-fighter/bomber
F15-fighter
b2-bomber
b52-bomber
A10-anti tank
Anti-tank helicopter
Gunship helicopter
Seaking helicopter
Transport helicopter

The anti-tank attack will be multiplied by, when fighting the following units.

* *.* when fighting a marine
* *.* when fighting a bazooka
* *.* when fighting a heavy mortar
* *.* when fighting a stinger soldier
* *.* when fighting a sniper
* *.* when fighting a machine gunner
* *.* when fighting a flame thrower
* *.* when fighting a m1 tank
* *.* when fighting a leopard tank
* *.* when fighting a flak half track
* *.* when fighting a howitzer
* *.* when fighting an artillery
* *.* when fighting an anti-tank
* *.* when attacking a building

Not capable of attacking the following air units:

F117-fighter/bomber
F14-fighter/bomber
F15-fighter
b2-bomber
b52-bomber
A10-anti tank
Anti-tank helicopter
Gunship helicopter
Seaking helicopter
Transport helicopter





future updates yet to come!

12 sept ’13:
- added citizen section layout
- added most units I’m going to do research on
- added multiplier layout for buildings


The next Empire Earth In Depth will be about hill-advantage, I’ve done some research about it in the past, but I think I’ve lost the data. And since it’s good to know how much advantage a hill actually gives you, it’s definitely worth doing some research on.

Last edited by lightnessking. on Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Arntzen
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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by Arntzen »

Great job. :D
I'll add this, and future posts like this one, to "A good place to start". Keep em coming!
The more units the better! :)
A Good Place to Start: viewtopic.php?f=75&t=3884
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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by Miri »

i know ur still updating but can u add multipliers vs citizens unless they are considered an archer unit. because weak against swords but strong against spears.

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lightnessking.
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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by lightnessking. »

Miri wrote:i know ur still updating but can u add multipliers vs citizens unless they are considered an archer unit. because weak against swords but strong against spears.
I'll keep that in mind, it's also important to know how much damage a citizen deals/receives. ^^
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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by Black Star »

i gues they are strong vs spears compared to swords cause spears have few hp but lots of attack and swords have , compared to spear, few attack but many hp
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lightnessking.
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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by lightnessking. »

Black Star wrote:i gues they are strong vs spears compared to swords cause spears have few hp but lots of attack and swords have , compared to spear, few attack but many hp
ill figure it out later this evening or tomorrow :).
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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by herik »

Never bothered going this deep, however good job, if there is a way to find attack speed differences in the units this would also be great ^.^ . if there is add it ;)

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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by BigRon »

hey OP how did you figure this stuff out? simply by attacking each unit with the chosen unit?

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lightnessking.
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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by lightnessking. »

herik wrote:Never bothered going this deep, however good job, if there is a way to find attack speed differences in the units this would also be great ^.^ . if there is add it ;)

Good idea, if I find a way how to (as accurate as possible) I'll try and add it. :P
BigRon wrote:hey OP how did you figure this stuff out? simply by attacking each unit with the chosen unit?
Yes + math.
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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by Omega »

BigRon wrote:hey OP how did you figure this stuff out? simply by attacking each unit with the chosen unit?
Correct. Presumably, in the scenario editor with a medium-difficulty computer (hard computers take less damage, and easy computers take more damage).

Say unit A has x attack. Say unit B has y armor.

If unit A attacks unit B, we can see how much damage is done to unit B. If unit B has no armor and the multiplier is 0, then unit B will have incurred x damage.

If the multiplier is 2 and the armor value is y = 0, then unit B will have incurred x damage.

If the multiplier is 2 and the armor value is y, then unit B will have incurred 2(x - y) damage if armor applies before the multiplier applies, or 2x-y damage if the multiplier applies before armor applies. Since the later case is how the game works, the damage incurred will be 2x-y. If armor doesn't apply at all (and you think it should--there are actually cases of this...) the damage would be only 2x.

In order to figure out what the multiplier actually is, we have the following equation:

(Damage Incurred) = (Attack Multiplier)*(Attack Value) - (Armor Value)

Or a shorter form (using values I used in my above examples, and with n = attack multiplier): D = nx - y

We can solve for the attack multiplier and we get: n = (D + y)/x
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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by Omega »

herik wrote:Never bothered going this deep, however good job, if there is a way to find attack speed differences in the units this would also be great ^.^ . if there is add it ;)
lightnessking. wrote:Good idea, if I find a way how to (as accurate as possible) I'll try and add it. :P
You can find the attack rate in dbobjects.dat, by opening it with a hex editor, finding the hex value that corresponds to the attack rate, and then converting it to a decimal value. This is however, a waste of time.

It's a waste of time because a lot of other factors determine effective attack rates in the game. These factors include the speed of the attack animation, the speed of the unit, the speed of the projectile for projectile attacking units, the probability the projectile actually hits under various circumstances, and for melee units, the attack animation in concert with bad pathing and/or the speed difference between the melee unit and its target, and for all units, possible delays due to movement when changing targets.

As an example, when I was designing Moorish Infantry, I originally messed with the attack rate of the units. Merely messing with the attack rate didn't make much of a difference at all, so I jacked it way up there to a point where it was perfectly fine for other attributes of the unit at the time. I then increased their speed by 1. This increased the damage output per unit time of the units by a HUGE amount.

It would be possible to calculate effective attack rate ranges, providing you made various assumptions and those assumptions were accurate. That's really not possible for the lower effective attack rate range values, though, and it's iffy for values you'd expect in a typical game, too.

If you want to test actual attack rates in the game, you're really going to want to actually test them in a game, with pre-defined scenarios, versus another person, and you'll also want to test it for varying quantities of the same units in the scenarios. Essentially, for each unit-unit pair contest, report say an "average" or "median" value, a "minimum" value, and a "maximum" value, or something similar. You'd want to do the same for unit combo versus unit or unit combo pairs too, because that can seriously change things (a unit combo makes mathematical treatment a bit more difficult, but even a flat value for it would be interesting in some cases).

Once you figure out a fair way to determine initiation of combat, it's pretty simple math because you know everything you need to know. The time, the number of units you had, the damage each hit of those units deals,and the total damage those units dealt.

As an alternative method that might be even more useful, but a bit more of a hassle, is to not determine a time when combat starts. Instead, say the moment units are on the screen or treatable of each other or the first attack is initiated, start a timer, and then periodically during the course of combat quicksave (or something) so that you can determine the effective attack rate per time segment. You could use some statistical techniques from that to describe things very accurately (or heck, if you did this, I could write a program for you very quickly that'd do the analysis given the data in an easily readable form), and you'd almost inevitably find some interesting but generally obvious changes in effective attack rates over time, if the time instants were appropriately chosen.

In order to simplify matters, you should upgrade the health of each of your units and each opposing unit a billion times (but still try and treat them as you normally would at each army size, i.e. don't just let a sword beat on a cav archer because neither will die). This will inflate effective attack rates obviously, because in real combat units would almost certainly die, but still.
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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by lightnessking. »

Didn't had much time to gather any information about this topic this week, but I will update this tomorrow.
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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by lightnessking. »

Done some updates on the layout only since i'm bored but can't open EE at the moment.
And if I have nothing else to do this evening, I will atleast try to get the most used units done (with the priority of barrack units first. )
which are:

longswords
cavalry archers
knights
balista's

grenadiers
imperial cuirasseers
dragoons
bombards

marines
heavy mortars
m1 tanks
leopard tanks
artillery
anti tanks

Also, I'm going to test a few most-used units, and have them attack a hero, to see if there is a multiplier, and to see if there are different multipliers for specific units.
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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by Udolf »

Omega wrote:
BigRon wrote:hey OP how did you figure this stuff out? simply by attacking each unit with the chosen unit?
Correct. Presumably, in the scenario editor with a medium-difficulty computer (hard computers take less damage, and easy computers take more damage).
Thanks a lot!

Now I know how I can get my AI to be cheatless. I need it to be medium difficulty level. Now it's hard difficulty, that's why it's making more damage than normal, which is a kind of cheat.
So I need to remake the scenario anyway.

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Re: Empire Earth in depth - Attack Multipliers

Post by P-51 »

I really wish other games did this. Attack modifiers are one of the things that really made EE a diverse and unique experience. New RTS games could gain alot from it.

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