GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Talk about anything EE related and doesn't belong in another forum. Gameplay, chit-chat, or any questions you have -- it all belongs here.
Post Reply
User avatar
lightnessking.
Nemesis
Posts: 2050
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:27 pm

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by lightnessking. »

Kazter wrote:
Elite wrote:Vanguard middle 4v4's. And then Hobojoe introduced pf pocket sword, which basically ruined aoc middle.
I'm prolly far over my head here but I'd imagine "pf sword on pocket" did nothing to the Mid Sh scene since it has a 1/50 win ratio over CA-pocket. Not to mention when wing or pocket goes knights.
pf sword has a high win ratio vs pocket cav ( unless fully walled. ). imo. typing more tomorrow since im on a iFail (pod).
You cannot make another post so soon after your last.

P-51
Epic Multiplayer Scenario Team Member
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:19 pm
Xfire: p51p51
Lobby Username: «•FRMB•»P-51
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by P-51 »

More like, iFag.

User avatar
Arntzen
Administrator
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:13 am
Lobby Username: _[eC]_Arntzen_
Location: Norway

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by Arntzen »

I think it depends on how greedy the CA-guy is beeing. Like I sometimes try to abuse the expan-power with putting 6forage+8hunters the first 3f11. But trying to kill a CA player with swords, on large map pocket vs pocket should IN THEORY, favor the CA player in my head. Pf means they would be even weaker (less swords or no atk).

Then again I might be crazy.
A Good Place to Start: viewtopic.php?f=75&t=3884
Click to download: eC Civilization

Elite
Advanced Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:37 pm
Lobby Username: Elite

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by Elite »

You're being crazy. Pathfinding swords is ridiculously overpowered in pocket, especially against exp. cav, and if they try to wall they just die. When I played it I would just mass hard until 5 f11, go nuke the pocket with 20 swords at 8 f11, and then eco rape the rest of the team with small groups while booming. I'd say having 1 pocket go pf swords and 1 go CA or knights was a far more effective strategy than double CA. PF pocket is a cruel and vicious strat and If you think otherwise you never saw it in the hands of a good player. I actually remember a game vs pM where I had like 300 kills, and maybe 20 of those weren't cits.

User avatar
lightnessking.
Nemesis
Posts: 2050
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:27 pm

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by lightnessking. »

Kazter wrote:I think it depends on how greedy the CA-guy is beeing. Like I sometimes try to abuse the expan-power with putting 6forage+8hunters the first 3f11. But trying to kill a CA player with swords, on large map pocket vs pocket should IN THEORY, favor the CA player in my head. Pf means they would be even weaker (less swords or no atk).

Then again I might be crazy.
imagine 2x hp 2x speed 2x arrow armor + pathfinding.
Now let's say you have 30-40 swords in f11 8-10 (MW test is 50 lvl 6, tho it's easy to get 55-60 lvl 10 in f11 10.)

No doubt the cav player will die. (assuming both players are equally skilled.)
You cannot make another post so soon after your last.

Elite
Advanced Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:37 pm
Lobby Username: Elite

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by Elite »

When I played pf I would usually just mass hard until 4 f11 and go with like 20 swords, upgrading them to 8 or 10 and having 3-4 cits work on wall while swords are en route. Since alot pf people would wall with CA in pocket, sending your blob that early would make sure you beat the wall, and once you're inside their wall they'd have like 12-14 cavs, no houses, no towers....cit timeline drops to zero in 15 seconds. Even if they towered/housed instead of walling, exp. cavs masses so slow that you're still gonna wreck their eco. And they have no wall so you could just keep spamming swords to keep them down, or start dispatching smaller groups to harass their teammmates.

Trust me, playing middle really sucked when you had a pf pocket on the other team constantly harassing outlying mines/farms with small groups of swords - and he can do this to everyone on your team simultaneously. Even if the pf guy's wing gets doubled hard, he only needs to hold for 10-15 f11, by that time the CA pocket will be dead and the wing will have +5 speed swords running all over his eco.

User avatar
Arntzen
Administrator
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:13 am
Lobby Username: _[eC]_Arntzen_
Location: Norway

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by Arntzen »

Ya I trust you, was just questioning it cuz of own experiences. Whenever I've been vs a pf-sword it hasnt really been a big problem. Either I holded alone (sometimes without switching to PC) or my wing was slut vs expan so he just ran right to the enemie pocket and nuked him.
A Good Place to Start: viewtopic.php?f=75&t=3884
Click to download: eC Civilization

User avatar
Omega
Administrator
Posts: 1807
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:56 pm
Lobby Username: [-Ts-] Ωmega
Location: Washington, DC / USA
Contact:

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by Omega »

Elite is right, but of course he's assuming the two players have equal skill. In his case, I'd say the PF player when he was playing it was significantly better than the CA players, especially since I find that AoC CA players are typically kinda bad at defending their bases versus swords. If the CA player is a lot better than the PF player, the CA player can of course still school the PF guy--I've done it a lot, but I also am a gigantic fan of no-exp classic EEC style pocket playing, meaning I basically start with 1 gold mine near wood, pop 5 cits to it, make a shit ton of towers and houses along with archery ranges there, and push out to a second gold etc, at least most games that are 4 vs 4. Played intelligently and aggressively with cav, you can certainly avoid get omgwtf uber raped as bad as most AoC cav players will, and you can definitely beat PF players who are worse than you.

Assuming all equal skill again though, PF sword pocket on an otherwise 'standard' team vs the exact same team without the PF sword pocket, and the team with the PF sword pocket wins hands down.
Image

Elite
Advanced Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:37 pm
Lobby Username: Elite

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by Elite »

The essence of a matchup between pf pocket and CA pocket is that swords are very effective cit killers in minute numbers - 1 or 2 can clear a mine in a few seconds. The CA player can raid with smaller groups but he has to pay alot more attention to them because conservation and building up your mass is more important early game for CA than it is for swords. A sword player, especially in pocket where he doesn't have to worry so much about keeping his numbers up to counter enemy sword mass, can basically just spam swords haphazardly all over the map and drive his opponents mad, and after 10 f11 he will have a full wall so there won't be much anyone can do about it.

You also have to remember you're playing on a large map, so if you take your cavs to support your wing, its very easy for a sword blob from pocket to slip past and go wreck your eco. If the cav player takes actions to make himself stronger early game ie forgoing wall in favor of towers and focusing more on army than on booming, he's going to be alot slower at transitioning into the late game powerhouse with hero, zeus, and balli mix. And since your max pop in real mid 4v4 games (ie not gameranger) was 178, CA pretty much lost to sword with hero until you mixed in a good number of ballistas. 50-60 CA, about your max with that pop count, just isn't enough to stop 100 swords with hero.

Captain Nemo
Global Moderator
Posts: 1101
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:23 am
Lobby Username: >Heros<=Captain Nemo*

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by Captain Nemo »

Yeah elite is right. I've played quite a few times vs some pocket who did PF swords and it is a total pocket killer especially since u often wall up full (bout not trees) and then moving to support wing and suddenly u lost all. Either way if u tower or wall u're gonna get baseraped at some point. Exactly because of this it is a good idea to have at least one guy go knight/bali, because u can mass knights at start and protect team and it also rocks late game when u have zeus.

AoC Mid SH allows so many strats wing/pocket that it's often a guess in the dark what will work a cirtain game unless u play vs predictable people... like myself.
bosshaft: "A warm pussy is so much better than a dick! Trust me."

Elite
Advanced Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:37 pm
Lobby Username: Elite

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by Elite »

Yea knights was a very viable strat because of low pop, exp., large map, and more boom oriented pockets. Pocket sword mass with a focus on quick hero and zeus or a sword mix civ were also good, was nice to have more potential strategies.

Icestorm2
Intermediate Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 3:07 am

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by Icestorm2 »

Elite wrote:Vanguard middle 4v4's. And then Hobojoe introduced pf pocket sword, which basically ruined aoc middle.
Small details, Seizmic and I started doing this as a way to fuck with Pyro in 2006. He was so dependent on walling off his base he didn't know how to deal with it. It didn't require any talent or really only a basic skillset if all you wanted to do was annoy the other team (Hobojoe).

As far as expansionism vs non-expansionism goes, I pretty much played AoC from the beginning and remember with a good deal of clarity how (and why) expansionism became a necessity to compete in those games. For 4v4 Middle SH on a large map it was undoubtedly more beneficial to have expansionism and pop cap than not. The first reason that pops into my head is just the fact that games could go back and forth and it was much easier to rebuild and retake what you'd lost if you had expansionism. Of course in pocket it was just easier to boom, especially in the fashion that someone like Enigma or Pyro was known for. When people like Enigma or Baron boomed the eec style just wasn't enough to tackle a well-controlled mixed army like that, they could (and often did) make short work of a pocket and wing massing swords and CA. Buttfreek posted a well-documented case on MPA of Enigma withstanding an onslaught from Krimson after they'd beaten all his other allies, and holding out long enough for two of his allies to rebuild and eventually win the game. Though, people like them were rare, the main advantage AoC players (people on Buttfreek/Pyro's level)had was greater proficiency with siege (especially with using group-speed).

Non-expansion sword rushing was still very effective in 4v4s, though. If you needed someone taken down quickly, that was the way to do it (and it was used before the EEC players arrived in late 2004). It's not so much that AoC players didn't know how to counter it, it just generally wasn't expected. When people expected it, unless you were up there with someone like Seizmic, you were basically setting yourself up for failure.

seizmic
Intermediate Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 3:02 am
Lobby Username: seizmic

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by seizmic »

To everyone saying PF sword > Cav, you're all wrong, if you play pocket CA like you'd play them in a 1v1 you'll be perfectly fine, just position your towers and buildings in a defensive position around your wood cutters/gold mine and have 3 or so cavs positioned around the map to see when and where the swords are coming from and you'll be fine.

Imo, it's been years since I've played this game and I can still remember off by heart why certain things worked and certain things didn't, the issue with PF swords wasn't that they dominated cavs it's that people started walling up and just waiting for the pocket to leave their base and then would base rape them. Base raping ruined 4v4s, not pocket swords or PF swords.

Also, Elite, why are you talking about what works and what doesn't in regards to mid sh? I remember you back in the day and you wasn't a top tier mid sh player then, you was good but you wasn't on the level of people like Icestorm, Enigma and myself. From the looks of it you're still not on our level either as your understanding and perception of the game seems to be exactly the same as it was 6 years ago, the game had already evolved passed your view of it then so it must be light years ahead of it now, unless the skill level has decreased since.

Imo watching you talk about mid sh would be like you watching me talk about mod tl. BTD on cavs? You can't be serious etc. On a civ without expansionism? Yeah, but anyone playing AoC without expansionism on cavs is either a fresh off the boat EEC player or just a bad player in general. I beat the top cav rushers in 06 with my expan civ vs their no expan civs and they were methodical victories each time, not luck based, just mathematical certainties. The longer the game goes on, the weaker you will get and in a battle of attrition (like 1v1s usually are) you're always going to be on the losing end unless your opponents skill level is sub par in comparison to your own. Let me just list some of the players I beat expan vs no expan to prove my point in regards to cavs: Zealot and Goldeneye. The list is unending but they're the best players at that style from my recollection etc.

Anyways, me and Icestorm are considering playing again does anyone know if it's worth it? Is Omegas AoC killing patches still used? Is the lobby still a trojan? Are there any active players left etc etc?

User avatar
lightnessking.
Nemesis
Posts: 2050
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:27 pm

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by lightnessking. »

seizmic wrote:

Imo watching you talk about mid sh would be like you watching me talk about mod tl. BTD on cavs? You can't be serious etc. On a civ without expansionism? Yeah, but anyone playing AoC without expansionism on cavs is either a fresh off the boat EEC player or just a bad player in general.

I loll'd :D.

And if you want AOC mid sh, it's not worth it since it's not very active anymore.
You cannot make another post so soon after your last.

User avatar
Arntzen
Administrator
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:13 am
Lobby Username: _[eC]_Arntzen_
Location: Norway

Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.

Post by Arntzen »

How active do you need it to be?
Do like calv and them did, join lobby start hosting and suddenly alot of people were playing it. Many mid players play alot of settings now.. but if they see mid game they maybe drop out of the p2n and join you guys! I'm also interessted in seeing you beat sword without BTD Seizmic.
A Good Place to Start: viewtopic.php?f=75&t=3884
Click to download: eC Civilization

Post Reply

Return to “EE General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests