I believe it is once again time

[d-dog]

Why does everyone, when they quote me, start babbling on about "the majority" how many times do I have to tell you, DONT. GIVE. A. FUCK. ABOUT. THE. MAJORITY. They are all fucking retarded, and have been lead to believe

Omega's recycled arguements against mine, this was in the patch section fyi

Basically people don't agree with you are fucking retarded? Awesome logic. The vote explained in detail what they were voting for. Omega breast fed them information. It wasn't biased at all which seems to be what your implying. The only way someone didn't know what they were voting for is if they can't read English or just chose not to. Mentioning of reading you need to read what Omega said a bit better as well. Not once did he say tribute=no skill, once again your are over exaggerating(you seem to a lot).

As for your tribute/no tribute argument and skill. Each has pros/cons. If you can't see that then there is no point in arguing with you. P2S is actually a little unforgiving now if you don't manage your economy properly. Mod Tl isn't who has the best pocket anymore who can whore out the most resources and expand the quickest. You actually have to help your wing. Liga doesn't have any more cheese rushes.

My personal experiences with tributes. I've played every age/setting. Is that they are almost always used to help band aid a problem that could of been prevented. There are some different situations such as, tribbing your stone to a wing in Mod Tl, gold/iron swap in middle, etc, but that is such trivial stuff I really wouldn't be forming an argument around that.

A tribute screen system allows four very good players to make up for poor play much easier than without. You can use the tribute screen skillfully and win a lot of games, but it isn't the only thing required for team play nor is it the pinnacle of team play. I've won TONS of team games before any tributes are needed on our side while they exchanged thousands of resources. IMO I consider the tribute screen teamwork training wheels. Just my perspective from the countless games I've played.

I don't understand how your saying the game is all military now? If anything it was easier to be military based with tributes. Take Mod Tl for example, non cit cr was viable with tributes, because basically you had a crutch that would make the economic difference(your teammates) now if you fail @ holding your own economically the whole team pays for it. Because your pocket just can't breast feed you food to help you boom while you have steroid tanks and marines. If anything it has toned down the military dominance of this game and required all eight players to play a balanced game. You can't just focus on one area and the wing the other anymore. I find that more enjoyable than building a whole strategy around, okay you whore out huge mili upgrades while I feed you resources and give you air cover. I find that very stale gameplay although it is quite effective. Liga is the same way now, wings actually have to pay attention to their economy rather than mass their one unit and attack.

I don't know what vote you were taking, but here's what the vote looked like word for word

1. [*] What anti-cheating measures should be included in the next patch?
Remove the tribute screen and use the anti-trainer measures. (Prevents the most cheating)
Use the current anti-glitch and anti-trainer measures.
Use only the current anti-glitch measures. Who cares about trainers?
Use only the anti-trainer measures. Who cares about glitches?
Don't use any anti-cheating measures.

Nice, of course people are going to vote to remove the tribute screen, who the fuck wants cheating? Its the way its worded that makes it sound bias. 'anti-cheating measures' 'remove tribute screen (Prevents the most cheating)', but the best one is the option for not removing the tribute screen 'Don't use any anti-cheating measures'. Makes it sound like the only people who would vote for that option are themselves cheaters. Of course all the newer players are going to not vote for it, most of them probably don't even know how it really could be used in games. The option should of said "Don't remove the tribute screen or custom chat (Doesn't effect gameplay, strategy, or team games).
And yes, they are retarded, mainly due to the fact they don't really understand what they are voting on. Vote was bias imo.

You can use the tribute screen skillfully and win a lot of games, but it isn't the only thing required for team play nor is it the pinnacle of team play

It can most certainly be the pinnacle of team play, if you actually understand it and how to use it. I remember sometimes, me and thor would double bases together(one of us would bring starting cits to others base and build there), one would be iron/food based uints, while the other, gold/wood. This strategy was dependent on tributing to maintain our symbiotic relationship, resources had to be tributed back and forth in order for us to survive. Yea its not your usual ee strat., but I don't play ee to win every game, I play for fun. All removing the tributes does is lessen the amount of teamwork/strategies that can be done in the game. Its getting dull, I want to try new shit. I'm not talking about starting game tributes in most of my arguements btw, games that last longer, tributes become so much more meaningful

I'm glad you enjoy the patch tbh, but even yourself are admitting to the gameplay style being changed. Ok well that's fine I guess, but I havn't played ee all these years saying to myself "wow gameplay needs to be changed asap" otherwise I would of moved on to ee2, ee3 etc. These arguments may seem trivial to all the people who favor the patch, but I guess that is because I have different experiences with the tribute function than you guys do

[ben55]

It had questions to see how component you're @ what you're voting for. I remember having to answer something like three or five questions, about the tribute screen and how it is related to cheating.

By the third vote people understand exactly what they were voting for. Because it was drilled into there head exactly what the patch would do. If not they surely would of noticed in gameplay what was missing. The patch had people making it known what it will do, hell I remember Binary debating in the lobby exactly what it does A LOT. It was a big debate even in the quieter and more foreign p2n crowd. People knew exactly what it did. You're reaching for an argument pretty hard if you think otherwise. I'm starting to wonder if you were even around playing when the patch came out.

I don't understand in your second statement, you say it is the pinnacle of teamwork(which I disagree with) I can spam someone 90k resources in a mod tl game. We may win because he is just making army to defend or harass, but did that take any skill from his part or mine? No not really. I took about 10 seconds to spam him resources every so often and went back to the game.

"me and my buddy we build a base and economy together!!!" Okay that might be the ultimate "teamwork", but is it the ultimate team strategy and use of teamwork from a winning perspective? I'd say no, but you play for fun, that's cool more power to you. My experiences the skilled use of tributing comes early game (pre15f11). Example giving stone to someone in p2n/s to build a temple asap. Tributing gold to prophet rush a heavy boomer. Giving your food/wood to a wing @7f11 in mod tl for a huge mass. Anything that is late game is usually mindless resource whoring to the weakest link or wounded teammate from my experience.

I'm getting tired of these debates it seems like a three month ritual now, and running in circles about the patch.

If you are truly this upset and passionate about the patch. You have been told how to get a "re-vote" so it is up to you to do it or not.

[_thor]

If you are truly this upset and passionate about the patch. You have been told how to get a "re-vote" so it is up to you to do it or not.

how about just stepping up to the plate and not backing the authority for once bro, i know julia guillard may be cool when she sucks Obama's dick and all but think for yourself ....

leave the game the way it trucking was for 10 years?, any vote current and past is biased simply because of the fact that most of the players/save-ee posters are NEW PLAYERs (lightness king etc) who think trib is bad) and leave it the way it fucking was

old player's vote should be valued more than new

[d-dog]

I don't understand in your second statement, you say it is the pinnacle of teamwork(which I disagree with) I can spam someone 90k resources in a mod tl game. We may win because he is just making army to defend or harass, but did that take any skill from his part or mine? No not really. I took about 10 seconds to spam him resources every so often and went back to the game.

I don't really care how easy it is, the point is its a strategy, if it's another way to help win a game, it is teamwork, you could of horded those resources for yourself, if you noticed your ally was dying and decided to tribute him, your making a conscience effort to save him and help your team, its the same thing military wise, if hes under attack, and you send an army to help him, your supporting your team and your ally. When I say its the pinnacle of teamwork, I don't mean its the only peak, millitary might is also at the top, I hold both of these things equal. And those 90k resources that you so "easily" gave away, imo took skill, not in sending them, but in gathering it, you had to put a lot effort into defending your base while maintaining a good effort to support your team. There's an opportunity cost for everything. Deciding to either use those resources for yourself, or hand them out to your team mates IS TEAMWORK

And I agree with thor, there shouldn't even be a debate going on right now, leave the game how it was made, IMO, it makes more sense if this was the opposite way around, have vanilla EE as the standard for the community, then have the option for them to patch and joined other patched games for those who are butthurt and afraid that theres CHEATERS EVERYWHEREEEE

[ben55]

Backing authority? I was one of the few that actually tried to get people to sign a petition when this patch came out to prevent it. Simply because I was tired of people complaining and debating. I started a thread I got Elite and like two or three others to show their support. I advertised it, etc. I'm one of the patch "fan boys", and I have done more for your cause than yourself. Which I find pretty pathetic considering how much you guys cry about it.

I don't get why new players votes should be less valued than yours or mine. They play just like you do. That is a very close-minded point of view.

D-dog, I'm not debating if it is teamwork or not. I'm saying it isn't a required thing for teamwork. IE it is not game defining from a competitive stand point. Ideally in every RTS I've ever played if you are tributing you're losing and it is a last resort effort to counter/win. AKA Teamwork training wheels.

You guys are making it sound like you can't work at all in a team with tributes which is false.

[d-dog]

Point is it doesn't matter, it's time we reverted the game back to its natural, original, vanilla state, and to play the game in the way it was meant to be played. It doesn't really matter what the majority thinks should happen, its not yours or my game to start with, the creators never intended the game to be this way, its not the game i've played for 9 odd years as well. So make the default state of the game vanilla, then if people wish to use omega's 'game mod' they can patch and join other people's modded games. This makes more sense than the current system considering it is indeed a mod, and should be treated as such. If the majority actually favors the game mod, this shouldn't be a problem at all. So your right, I don't give a fuck about what people think should and shouldn't happen, I'm not arguing for myself, I'm arguing for empire earth.

[d-dog]

Backing authority? I was one of the few that actually tried to get people to sign a petition when this patch came out to prevent it. Simply because I was tired of people complaining and debating. I started a thread I got Elite and like two or three others to show their support. I advertised it, etc. I'm one of the patch "fan boys", and I have done more for your cause than yourself. Which I find pretty pathetic considering how much you guys cry about it.

Laughable, me and thor and countless others have been questioning the actions of admins/moderators and what has been happening to ee since the inception of this lobby, you didn't recruit elite to do anything for you. Elite, thor, me, icestorm, enigma, and countless others have been doing so for a long time. Don't be so quick to judge, we have just become tired of arguing over things people seem to accept so easily, and that is certainly not a good thing.

[ben55]

LOL. I never said you people didn't complain. I said you never did anything about your complaints. IE organize or promote your ideas and challenge the "man".

Engima, Icestorm, etc weren't even around on the inception on this patch (what I was talking about). If you're going to quote people at least read what you quote of them.

[ben55]

Point is it doesn't matter, it's time we reverted the game back to its natural, original, vanilla state, and to play the game in the way it was meant to be played. It doesn't really matter what the majority thinks should happen, its not yours or my game to start with, the creators never intended the game to be this way, its not the game i've played for 9 odd years as well. So make the default state of the game vanilla, then if people wish to use omega's 'game mod' they can patch and join other people's modded games. This makes more sense than the current system considering it is indeed a mod, and should be treated as such. If the majority actually favors the game mod, this shouldn't be a problem at all. So your right, I don't give a fuck about what people think should and shouldn't happen, I'm not arguing for myself, I'm arguing for empire earth.

I don't understand how you keep justifying your argument. People voted it happened, super majority rules. Can you not accept that? If you show proof/data that there is a new majority they will re-vote. Until then the assumption is the majority of empire earth prefers this version, so why should the majority bow to the minority? I thought it was common sense that in a vote you favor the majority.

The lobby isn't about "I, me, myself, or you" it is about what the majority voted and wanted for. If you don't like it unpatch. The solution to your problem isn't as complex as you make it out to be. They play with tributes on gameranger, you could go there if unpatching is to much of a hassle.

[P-51]

@P51 LOL, unable to prove your ignorance/hypocrisy?

You call them "lazy" when you have done NOTHING for this game but complain, and the one the thing you complain about you have done NOTHING to prove/support accept basic assumptions.

??? We've had this conversation in the past it has been the EXACT same people arguing about it. Go look at the threads it is the same people minus one or two from each side. Every single time.

The only way to get data? Holy shit is it so hard to ask these mass amount of people to "whisper" a moderator or admin, or even sign up on here and post. Since there is such an uproar about changing. Like y'know that's how this whole thing started. People asking and causing an uproar about ways to prevent cheating. They showed enough support and got the vote they asked for. You can do the same thing since there is a precedent.

Apparently they don't mind @ all about mods/addons, which is all this is, since they supported ee-heavan's mods/addons which some of them had far more radical changes than this. This is during the WONLobby too. All this is a mod/addon that you can turn on or off. Now if you were forced to play on this version(which you are not) I would agree with you.

Prove your ignorance? Hah I don't have to prove anything people just have to read your posts.

I am unsure of how to respond to this apart from stating that what you say is simply not true. It appears that you are unable to comprehend your own words, nor do you have the ability to construct a purposeful argument. The fact that this thread has appeared, gained attention, and gained support multiple times is enough of a reason to redo the vote. Perhaps you don't agree with that statement, but you still have not said why you are against bringing back tributes. You appear to have no position at all in this argument and are only here to flame/troll people in order to get this thread off topic.

If I were lazy like you claim, why the hell would I take the time to come here: present the issue, defend my position, read and respond to your bullshit posts, and keep this topic alive in the hopes of having an admin come by and decide that it is finally time to redo the vote to bring tributes back. I am doing alot more for this game than you or that lightness kid has ever tried to do on this forums.

I don't understand how you keep justifying your argument. People voted it happened, super majority rules.

That happened a long time ago. Times change, there are new players and old players have left. Are you unable to grasp the concept that communities change over time? I don't see how you can still think that a majority wishes to keep away the tributes when you are the only one who is fighting it. And like I stated above you have given no support for why you want to keep the tributes away. So perhaps that is zero people.

[d-dog]

LOL. I never said you people didn't complain. I said you never did anything about your complaints. IE organize or promote your ideas and challenge the "man".

Engima, Icestorm, etc weren't even around on the inception on this patch (what I was talking about). If you're going to quote people at least read what you quote of them.

We organized plenty, just not here on the forums. And brah, you might wanna go back and read what I said, never said engima and icestorm were here around the inception of the patch, said inception of the lobby. I was just providing evidence that thor and me and many others have been fighting multiple things that have taken place after the wonlobby was taken down, and to say hes done nothing for our 'cause' is ignorant, it's just not shown in this thread.

I don't understand how you keep justifying your argument. People voted it happened, super majority rules. Can you not accept that? If you show proof/data that there is a new majority they will re-vote. Until then the assumption is the majority of empire earth prefers this version, so why should the majority bow to the minority? I thought it was common sense that in a vote you favor the majority.

The lobby isn't about "I, me, myself, or you" it is about what the majority voted and wanted for. If you don't like it unpatch. The solution to your problem isn't as complex as you make it out to be. They play with tributes on gameranger, you could go there if unpatching is to much of a hassle.

I don't understand how YOU can keep justifying your argument. You keep ignoring the fact that this "patch" is a game mod, nothing else, it should be treated as such. Original game intact, vanilla, then if people want to mod their game, they can do so. Makes sense, you always have to install game mods after the original version for any game, should work the same way here. You and I both know if this happened, everyone in the lobby would be playing vanilla simply for the fact that not because its popular according to the majority, but because everyone else uses that version, and people just want to play the game. This whole majority/minority is a huge joke, its not what everyone else wants, its what everyone else is using. Mods should always be installed later for this simple fact.

[_thor]

kinda like circumcision; youre born with a perfectly working penis but until you turn jewish and mod yourself do you lose the foreskin (rip)

[Omega]

Most of the arguments presented are the same old shit. I'm ignoring those ones, since they've practically been answered a thousand times.

I agree with P-51 that communities change over time, just like the opinions of the consistent members of a community change over time. This is why we're open to the possibility of a re-vote. We're not going to do a re-vote unless there is sufficient data supporting the idea people want a re-vote and/or people have changed their minds. It's been stated at least a dozen times by now as to exactly how you can get that re-vote--simply get a bunch of people who want the re-vote to register and post here about it.

As for the idiotic suggestion no one would be using the patch if it weren't automatically done by the lobby, may I quickly mention: People used the first four patches, and to apply those you had to go find them on the Save-EE website, save them to your computer, and run the installer. It's also really, really easy to uninstall the patches as mentioned before. Oh, and the lobby doesn't install the patches unless you hit auto-update or otherwise tell it to install the patches.

It should probably also be mentioned that removing the very first AoC patch was much more difficult to remove than the patches are currently, yet a ton of people (~50%) did uninstall it due to issues with the patch, which were fixed in version 1.1a. Perhaps this might suggest that given that removing the patch is MUCH easier now, that if people didn't like it they could and would remove it and play with other like minded people?

[Eisregen]

i dont see proplem here just deinstall the patch and play without...
why a revote?

[ben55]

I am unsure of how to respond to this apart from stating that what you say is simply not true. It appears that you are unable to comprehend your own words, nor do you have the ability to construct a purposeful argument. The fact that this thread has appeared, gained attention, and gained support multiple times is enough of a reason to redo the vote. Perhaps you don't agree with that statement, but you still have not said why you are against bringing back tributes. You appear to have no position at all in this argument and are only here to flame/troll people in order to get this thread off topic.

If I were lazy like you claim, why the hell would I take the time to come here: present the issue, defend my position, read and respond to your bullshit posts, and keep this topic alive in the hopes of having an admin come by and decide that it is finally time to redo the vote to bring tributes back. I am doing alot more for this game than you or that lightness kid has ever tried to do on this forums.

I don't understand how you keep justifying your argument. People voted it happened, super majority rules.

That happened a long time ago. Times change, there are new players and old players have left. Are you unable to grasp the concept that communities change over time? I don't see how you can still think that a majority wishes to keep away the tributes when you are the only one who is fighting it. And like I stated above you have given no support for why you want to keep the tributes away. So perhaps that is zero people.

You're doing a lot for this game by creating this topic? Hardly all your doing is bickering about a problem instead of taking the information you have obtained on how to fix it and apply it. Sounds really lazy to me. This thread has been open for what a few weeks, and you haven't gained any momentum just the same people who always voice their dislike in the patch. That isn't evidence of a new majority. It is the same people bitching about this.

This thread is about 2% of the active population. You're crazy if you expect them to make a choice over the people in this thread's debates/outcry. I won't deny things change overtime, but you have shown not proof that it has. The only proof we have is the other vote. Until the "afflicted" party shows evidence that there should be a re-vote. The only data/proof is that patch. Is that not hard to understand? Apparently it is since I have said it about 12 times now.

And I haven't stated my stance on the tribute screen? Dude I've said it about four times now going back in forth with d-dog. I even quoted myself as to what I believe. I suggest you sit down and read the posts, before you press the "reply" button.

LOL. I never said you people didn't complain. I said you never did anything about your complaints. IE organize or promote your ideas and challenge the "man".

Engima, Icestorm, etc weren't even around on the inception on this patch (what I was talking about). If you're going to quote people at least read what you quote of them.

We organized plenty, just not here on the forums. And brah, you might wanna go back and read what I said, never said engima and icestorm were here around the inception of the patch, said inception of the lobby. I was just providing evidence that thor and me and many others have been fighting multiple things that have taken place after the wonlobby was taken down, and to say hes done nothing for our 'cause' is ignorant, it's just not shown in this thread.

I don't understand how you keep justifying your argument. People voted it happened, super majority rules. Can you not accept that? If you show proof/data that there is a new majority they will re-vote. Until then the assumption is the majority of empire earth prefers this version, so why should the majority bow to the minority? I thought it was common sense that in a vote you favor the majority.

The lobby isn't about "I, me, myself, or you" it is about what the majority voted and wanted for. If you don't like it unpatch. The solution to your problem isn't as complex as you make it out to be. They play with tributes on gameranger, you could go there if unpatching is to much of a hassle.

I don't understand how YOU can keep justifying your argument. You keep ignoring the fact that this "patch" is a game mod, nothing else, it should be treated as such. Original game intact, vanilla, then if people want to mod their game, they can do so. Makes sense, you always have to install game mods after the original version for any game, should work the same way here. You and I both know if this happened, everyone in the lobby would be playing vanilla simply for the fact that not because its popular according to the majority, but because everyone else uses that version, and people just want to play the game. This whole majority/minority is a huge joke, its not what everyone else wants, its what everyone else is using. Mods should always be installed later for this simple fact.

Read what you said? You quoted me talking about the patch. Then went on about how you, thor, Enigma, and Icestorm have rebelled against the "man" in the past. That's cool - I have to probably more so than any of you(ask Omega), but I was talking about the patch, not "MAB" or constant ridicule on MPA. That's why I implied when you quote someone at least talk in the context of what they quoted.

As for the add on versus vanilla/patch vs no patch; see what Omega wrote he summarized it pretty good.