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[ben55]

modtl#1

[Fraktardo]

i believe ee and aoc are closely related, and there's no reason to separate the two anymore

in the same way albert einstein is closely related to a pig

[Samuel]

u dont know anything about mod tl, no other set has as much strategies
for example: marine forward, tank forward, marine forward + air, mass tanks, mass air, tank at, inf at, inf tank at, tank + morts, tc whoring (best imo)
ok now lets take a closer look at something else like uhm.. pre to space... club rush, boom, towerrush
mod tl vs pre to space: 10:3
mid sh: knights, swords, ca, archers, xbows, ca+siege, swords + archers
mod tl vs mid sh 10:7
once again, mod tl won
okay to really convince you that mod tl is the best set Ill compare it to the so called pro set LIGA
13 ages or so and every age has one or maybe two strategies so whats the conclusion
mod tl vs liga 10:2
but since Samuel likes to jerk off his little italian spaghetti to KraSs playing liga I cant take Liga really serious so any "counter" about how "pro" liga is isnt valid.

I respect your opinion, that's fine
Just saying that you claim Mod TL is the best set just as much as I claim Liga is
I have got my personal opinion, you have got yours, I enjoy my set, you enjoy yours, and everybody wins

[P-51]

units =/= strategies

A knight rush and a sword rush and a tank rush and an air rush are the same basic strategy with different civs.

[lightnessking.]

units =/= strategies

A knight rush and a sword rush and a tank rush and an air rush are the same basic strategy with different civs.

Pro speaking lol!

[Captain Nemo]

units =/= strategies

A knight rush and a sword rush and a tank rush and an air rush are the same basic strategy with different civs.

Agree! You can add zookrush in mod dm to that list. Aswell as persianrush in liga, basically all liga rushes i guess. Same strat different civ all of them!!!!

[eeralf_]

i believe ee and aoc are closely related, and there's no reason to separate the two anymore

my words, ty, put the games together

[Ghost]

Zook/Arty rush
Zook/Marine/Arty rush
Zook/Arty rush-expand
Tank rush
AT/Tank mass-rush
Flak/AT/Leopard/Arty slide
M1/Zook/Arty rush
M1/Mortar rush
M1/AT/Mortar rush
All inf/AT/Arty expand

That was just ground units only

B-2 rush
Dick move B-2 rush opponent's capitol at 5f11
Nuke rush
B-2 rush-expand
Fighter mass-rush
Fighter/FB rush
All air mix rush
FB rush with ground 2nd wave rush
Base hug/B-2 support expand
A10/Howitzer rush

Doubled Mod TL's shit and these each have their own little twists you can put on them

[Captain Nemo]

The twists make the strats. Mod dm strats are so complex hardly anyone play strats the same way except perhaps for zeke and lava who are strikingly similar. Most people actuallymix everything pretty much when doing base hug and adjust their strats to the opponent, that is when u go defensive mode. That doesn't mean each player don't have their trademarks. Dave would mostly get leopard tanks with snipers whereas u are more of an AT man ghost and then we have swarm with his love for mortars. But then again thats not how u would play every game. U forgot all AT/arty base hug btw. Or u didn't bother writing them all cause there are many more. No cost red base hug strat is one of my fav. U can go fighter/ground boom in pocket if u expect ur wing to lose badly. U could play sniper/tank arty rush too.

Some people, like ras, also liked to add helis to their base hugs. Or do goldis thing with zook marine arty expand with a few m1s. Also all slams a10 combo rushes he had big succes with. Especially with the m1 zook arty rush.

And thats just the units. There are different ways of doing the micro. Some make a full spread out with some flooding. Others keep 1 single tight group microed well. Others make a rather large hero group without arty and spread the rest out. Some have their focus on arty aiming at buildings. Some people keep a constant pressure on opponent throughout the game, others will do it in bursts.

I could go on and on np. Mod dm is the best, shame nobody plays it anymore. Think its too different from everything else. Most all set players would join and click obs saying they suck in mod dm thinking they learn by observing. Which isn't the case. Thx to those who took up the challenge

[lightnessking.]

Dick move B-2 rush opponent's capitol at 5f11

Damn, you must be a noob! You really gonna let enemy have a 85 or 100 wood capitol at a potentiel double/tripple mine?

[assys]

Is btw anyone willed to explain me why exactly grenwar does enjoy such a bad reputation?

[eeralf_]

units =/= strategies

A knight rush and a sword rush and a tank rush and an air rush are the same basic strategy with different civs.

i agree, but a rush can played in diffrent ways, for eg.: in early ( i wasnt so lazy than today), i attack always with 6 sword, i spit it in 2 groups and attack from 2 sides, that was a other strat like the mainstream .

[Lavanger]

If ghost is talking about mod dm, then losing the cap would be a 'dickmove' (lightness)

[Omega]

Is btw anyone willed to explain me why exactly grenwar does enjoy such a bad reputation?

Ease and history.

It's the easiest setting by far, and a setting where they're a really low skill ceiling, because it deliberately strips away, or at least minimizes CONSIDERABLY, a ton of aspects of player skill. Hard setting with high skill ceilings get respect because of that, and grenwars is the complete opposite of them.

History is a big part too. Historically, grenwars is a product of indy sh, by way of the series of offshoots that eventually led to indy sh no siege/religion/hand cannons. The scrubs pretty much decided that countering was noob too. So impwar, dragwar, and grenwar were born around the same times. Impwar died very quickly, as melee units require too much skill. Dragwar died pretty quickly too, because speedy gun units mean you can eco raid people, which is BAD because that might involve skill. Also, both of the cav alternatives meant you couldn't be a complete scrub with regard to your economy and still have a decent chance at winning. Grenwar survived because it was the least skillful of the alternatives. The players who played it, were predominantly scrubs, and the lowest of the low in scrub-hierarchy; they were so bad, other scrubs would even make fun of them sometimes.

Let's put it this way, how many settings can you name that require *significantly less* skill than grenwars, even including any settings that no one EVER plays? Yeah, pretty short list isn't it? I mean, even mid sh no rush 75 or something is LEAPS AND BOUNDS beyond the level of grenwar.

[Captain Nemo]

Is btw anyone willed to explain me why exactly grenwar does enjoy such a bad reputation?

History is a big part too. Historically, grenwars is a product of indy sh, by way of the series of offshoots that eventually led to indy sh no siege/religion/hand cannons. The scrubs pretty much decided that countering was noob too. So impwar, dragwar, and grenwar were born around the same times. Impwar died very quickly, as melee units require too much skill. Dragwar died pretty quickly too, because speedy gun units mean you can eco raid people, which is BAD because that might involve skill. Also, both of the cav alternatives meant you couldn't be a complete scrub with regard to your economy and still have a decent chance at winning. Grenwar survived because it was the least skillful of the alternatives. The players who played it, were predominantly scrubs, and the lowest of the low in scrub-hierarchy; they were so bad, other scrubs would even make fun of them sometimes.

Thats not how I remember it happened. It was basically a product of the grenmaker (wing) often deciding who would eventually win the game in indy sh no s/r/hc. So basically the one who could produce most grens "deserved" to win the game. Or at least there was a competition of who infact could produce most grens. Therefore at some point the counter (imps) would be viewed as ruining the game, as the only thing that mattered was who could make most grens. So the other units were banned so we could find out. Ecokill would obviusly also be spoiling the grenmassing comparison; sometimes grenrace was played too, but after all that was too boring. I was pretty much the head speaker for banning ecokills lol(sry yeah I was noob at the time). People ecokilled anyway, but it wasn't really until mortal came along we all started to open our eyes to gren micro. A year later there were some pretty good players playing grenwars, and it was infact very fun. It was fun all along I might add.

This is how I remember it, and I was there for the entire thing. Both from indy sh to indy sh no s/r/hc to grenwar.

I don't recall anyone ever making impwars, but did see a goonwar sometimes. It wasn't like it ever was a "set" tho, and I never saw it in the beginning. Only when we wanted to mix things up cause of too much grenwar lol

PS: I say "we" all the time cause I was part of the community, but really I personally wanted indy sh back on the menu as going cav was my fav thing.