New AI release

[Udolf]

This is the release of the new AI, Pre Alpha 0.1.

After developing the AI for about six months I decided to release this new AI, even though it's incomplete, just to get a bit of input.
Please notice that this is a pre alpha version, so don't expect too much from it. It may lagg, and yes, the AI is relatively weak compared to experienced human players.
Also, the AI has no triggers to build silos, temple and siege weapon factory so far, so I just created these buildings for it.
But apart from these building bonuses in the beginning, the AI is not cheating.


Before you play, PLASE DO NOT FORGET to put these two civilizations into your civilizations folder (Empire Earth/Users/default/Civilizations):
BOSS-CPU
Standard-CPU
After that, put the following three scenarios in your scenario folder (Empire Earth/Data/Scenarios):
New AI Pre Alpha 0.1.1 Development.scn
New AI Pre Alpha 0.1.1 Multiplayer.scn
New AI Pre Alpha 0.1.1 Single Player.scn

Then you can open the version that you like in the scenario editor and play it.

Info to these versions:
- New AI Pre Alpha 0.1 Development
This is the version that I use for the development of the AI. You observe how it fights against five other AIs. Chat messages in German are on the left. These messages tell what the AI is doing. Your resources are always equalized to the resources of the AI. Speed is not maximum. If you want maximum speed, hit the "+" button several times.
- New AI Pre Alpha 0.1 Single Player
This is a 1 vs 1. You fight against the AI. Please don't expect too much from it, it's a pre alpha version. Speed is not maximum. If you want maximum speed, hit the "+" button several times.
- New AI Pre Alpha 0.1 Multiplayer
This is a version that you can use to play the game with other human players. The AI can fight together with you or other players. It doesn't matter who is it's enemy or friend. You can change the diplomacy to your likings. Speed is not maximum. If you want maximum speed, hit the "+" button several times.

I'm interested in your input. Also, if you find bugs, tell me please, best is if you immediately save the game and upload the saved scn file here, so I can see what caused the error and fix it. If you want to change something, just do it and upload the scn file please, so I see what you did!

Have fun!

---UPDATE from version 0.1 to 0.1.1 --- (27.6.2015)
small error correction:
AI was not able to develop towers range and swordsman properties. Please use version 0.1.1, it's the newest version.

[Udolf]

I'm interested in your feedback.

[Udolf]

It seems nobody tested the AI so far. There are really much less users here than I thought, unfortunately.

[Arntzen]

It seems nobody tested the AI so far. There are really much less users here than I thought, unfortunately.

At least not so many willing to test something before it's finished.

I just did, and I got to tell you it was actually very fun. The AI swords cit-killing micro was superb
My first test was to get 4 knights 3 farms and just see what happens, and my god it was difficult

I tried the 1vs1 version btw. And I think you're on a good track. Suggestions on what you can add:

- I always wanted the AI to later on in the game make wonders, so I hope this is something you can think about. For example make the priest wonder to make those priests worthwhile.
- I think the AI really need to be able to make archers, in this way it can counter knigths.
- Also if it's possible that the AI can make more buildings for late game (idno if this is hard to do with the no-cheating AI).
- Same thing as wonders, I would be nice to see an AI hero.
- Getting the AI to make more than just 1 house to get more morale
- If possible (not necessary) change the game variant over to tournament. No idea if it's possible, but that's how humans play Mid SH

Little bug-report:
At the end of the game I noticed (after killing the AI's base) that it had build a TC next to what would have been my allies mine if it wasn't on the 1v1 version.
Also the AI sent randomly some citizen to the mines that were gone.

I will try out this scen more and see if I can give you some more imput. Overall: Nice work!

[Black Star]

K tested it a bit too:
Questions:
- Is it fixed to this map or could you play e.g. plains too?
- Does the AI use additional tc´s for cit production?

Report:
- loved how they actually hunt and specially lure animals
- Raiding micro very nice, defending micro good too (pulling cits back etc.)
- base building alright too ( houses issue kaz said)
- hero is build, but basically not used ( just attacks sth randomly)
- dunno how much effort it is, but in lategame should really get more than just swords ( archers, siege, sth like it)
- expanding is good in cases of settle +tower/house but even with 15 k iron/food only 6 rax in homebase, should also expand militery buildings
- havent seen 1 settlement placed good ( directly at the mine), but since most were at least ok thats a minor issue .
- later on hospitals
- No lag at all for me

[Udolf]

Helloy guys. Nice to see you tested it out. It's motivating to get some input.
Special thanks for you sharing your experience, which can help me a lot making the AI better.

@Arntzen

I just did, and I got to tell you it was actually very fun. The AI swords cit-killing micro was superb

Thank you. That was also one thing that was really nerve-killing for myself when I was fighting against the AI.
Please tell me: Was the AI able to kill some of your animals, Arntzen?

My first test was to get 4 knights 3 farms and just see what happens, and my god it was difficult

Do I understand you correctly, that you defended the AI with 4 knights?
If you managed to do this, then the AI is really bad (because 4 knights is not much!)... Maybe I just understood you wrong? So you managed to defend the AI with 4 knights, but you didn't defeat it with them, right?
For me it was also fun to fight against it. Especially as I know, how it works, therefore it's even more fun.

I tried the 1vs1 version btw. And I think you're on a good track.

Thank you.

Suggestions on what you can add:
- I always wanted the AI to later on in the game make wonders, so I hope this is something you can think about.

Yes, this is possible without much effort. However I think before that, there are many things which I should do first, especially make the AI's economy stronger. At the moment the AI is basically just using 2 iron mines, and I want it to use 5, if 5 are available. I also want the AI to replace killed citizens on iron mines immediately. This is my number one thing to do at the moment. Also the AI must build Silos, temple and siege weapon fabric itself, and fill out the farms with citizens. And wonders normally just become important after some time of playing, so wonders are not at the top of the to-do-list for me. But of course, I would also like to see the AI to do this when it's possible, and I will implement it when the time for it has come. Please don't see this as a refusal of your suggestion, it's a great suggestion, I just think that there are things which are much more important before implementing that, don't you agree?

For example make the priest wonder to make those priests worthwhile.

Good suggestion, thank you. I will think about it.
Considering the priests: I just made a simple calculation.
Without cost reduction, one priest costs the AI 50 food and 125 gold. If the priest is able to convert one knight, the AI not only got one knight, which is 60 food and 60 gold, the AI also caused a damage to the enemy of 60 food and 60 gold, which sums up to 120 food and 120 gold for just one convertation. Therefore, I thought the priests are worth it for the AI, because these priests are almost always able to convert at least one enemy unit, which is double damage because of the loss for the enemy and the won unit for the AI. This converted unit can still make damage- all in all it's worth it. I think the only reason why human beings don't use priests is, because they don't auto-convert, and therefore most of the time they will just do nothing which makes them useless. But AI's priests automatically convert, and therefore they are worth it.

- I think the AI really need to be able to make archers, in this way it can counter knigths.

Which archers are best to counter knights? The horse-archers or the archers without horses (don't know how they are called in English- mounted archers?).

- Also if it's possible that the AI can make more buildings for late game (idno if this is hard to do with the no-cheating AI).

No, so far all you suggest is possible, it's just a lot of work if I do it properly, so it doesn't lagg in the end. I'll take it into consideration. I also like the civilization that you suggested for the AI.

- Same thing as wonders, I would be nice to see an AI hero.

The AI is already able to make heroes, even though this is still under development. The only problem is, that its economy is so bad that it never gets enough eco to build the hero, or it just builds swordsmen all the time so it can't get the hero. But Arntzen, if you want to see the AI make the hero, just give it 1000 food and iron - it will make the fighter hero. If you give it 1000 food and gold, it will make the strategist hero. It will create the hero immediately, the process of creating the hero will start just when it gets enough resources for it, you will see. I even created triggers for the hero. It will be very hard for you to kill the AI's hero, because he will always go back to the capitol with its towers when he has less than 1100 hit points.

- Getting the AI to make more than just 1 house to get more morale

The main problem is the AI's economy. The AI is able to build more houses, but it doesn't get enough stone for more houses than one in your case. However in most of the cases the AI builds more than one house, often four as it should be. But I will definitely work on this when I find the time for it, thank you.

- If possible (not necessary) change the game variant over to tournament. No idea if it's possible, but that's how humans play Mid SH

Sorry for being a noob, but I don't know tournament. Please explain it to me or just give me a link for an explanation of it.

Little bug-report:
At the end of the game I noticed (after killing the AI's base) that it had build a TC next to what would have been my allies mine if it wasn't on the 1v1 version.
Also the AI sent randomly some citizen to the mines that were gone.

I don't really know what you mean. What is the TC? I guess it means the settlement. But which mines do you mean with "the mines that were gone"? The mines that are deleted in the very beginning? It would be very nice if you could save the game when something like this happens and upload the .scn file here, so I see exactly what is happening without explanation needed. It's not much work, and the scn file is very small. I'll be very thankful for it!

I will try out this scen more and see if I can give you some more input.

Would be superb!

Overall: Nice work!

Thanks a lot for the info, it's much worth for me, especially as you have much more experience than I have, so I can really make the AI much better from your suggestions. I'd also like to see a video of you fighting against the AI, so I could really try to create some Triggers which could break your strategy.

@Blackstar
Thank you also.

K tested it a bit too:
Questions:
- Is it fixed to this map or could you play e.g. plains too?

It is fixed to this scenario file. But this scenario file has no chosen objects, and no area definitions. The only things that are determined are the bases of the AI's. This means:
Change everything that you want in the map, delete and create what you want, just don't change the location of the basement of the AI. This is the only restriction in this Scenario file. I've created this AI intentionally flexible, so people could change the map to their likings. You can delete all objects that you want, including the iron mines, food, wood and so on. The AI will take what you give to it.
Just don't change the location of the base of the AI, because otherwise it will always go back to it's original base which is at the lower right-hand corner of the map.

- Does the AI use additional tc´s for cit production?

What are TC's? The AI doesn't cheat, if you mean something like that. But based on the context I assume that you mean settlement with TC, right? Then yes, the AI uses all its settlements for cit production.

Report:
- loved how they actually hunt and specially lure animals

Was a lot of work, I also like it, especially the luring part I like, this works really great.

- Raiding micro very nice, defending micro good too (pulling cits back etc.)

Thank you, I will try to make it even better.

- base building alright too ( houses issue kaz said)

Right. What do you think of building the towers like this, three at the capitol and one at a settlement?

- hero is build, but basically not used ( just attacks sth randomly)

Completely true. The hero is almost useless like this. I didn't create Triggers for the AI to use the hero properly so far (didn't have the time for it so far). However the hero is hard to kill because he will always go back when he has less than 1100 hit points, you can try this out.

- dunno how much effort it is, but in lategame should really get more than just swords ( archers, siege, sth like it)

This is much effort, but you are completely right with that.

- expanding is good in cases of settle +tower/house but even with 15 k iron/food only 6 rax in homebase, should also expand militery buildings

I guess with rax you mean the barracks, right? You are right, it's limited to 6 barracks so far. He still needs much time to build these barracks, and he only builds them when he can really use them to produce swordmen all the time. So I would rather like to work on his economy first before I work on other things, because a good eco is the base for everything, isn't it?

- havent seen 1 settlement placed good ( directly at the mine), but since most were at least ok thats a minor issue .

True. Haven't find a way to fix this so far, and I don't think I will find a way to fix this. The Editor is too limited to make the AI build the settlements directly beside the mines.

- later on hospitals

Yes. It would however be a lot of work to make the AI build hospitals at the right places, like human beings would build them. I'm not sure if the AI will even be able to use hospitals effectively, at least not at special places somewhere on the map, the Editor is too limited to do things like this properly. I could let it build a hospital at its center and let wounded units go to this hospital, when they are nearby.

- No lag at all for me

Good to know. This is correct for the 1 vs 1 version. However, the multiplayer version is lagging for me when there are many units, unfortunately.

More feedback and bug reports (please with scn file) are more than welcome! Thanx!

[Eisregen]

GJ!I had a Good Game vs ur Boss CPU Guess i lost like 3 xbows and 1 cit
I played the 1v1 map with xbows was realy unfair for the CPU
i guess with swords it will be harder but my feeling is the map is too big so the rushing wont hurt u, the cpu has very good cits hunting micro but waste too much units, if u build walls and good base he run into towers and die,its easy to simple outmass him.
Later rams came but since it was standart game setting they didnt kill anything ( i was xbows they should hurt!!) wall and tower hp is op.

Some ideas dont know if it works:

Small map ---> Faster rush
Not always the same map---> easy too build perfect base(towers,walls,moral)
Cpu should Mix units ---->Counter(one of the strongest mid combo is Sword/trebs/xbows)
Maybe random starting units and civs for the CPU would be interresting---->If u know he always go sword civ u just counter pick
Tunier gamemode----> then it feels more like Mid Sh and defensive buildings arnt that strong
His towersetting could be better.
His eco and expanding should be better i played like f11 40 and he had only 3 rax and 3 farms
I think the pop limit and limited iron gold mines are a good idea but still its too easy too outboom him.
But very nice work crazy what u did there!

[Black Star]

Hey,
after playing swords vs the AI I noticed the AI still has an advantage in combat. I dont know if this is on purpose or not, or if it is even fixable wihtout editing the code, but a human swordsman with 29+7 attack deals 39 damage to a AI swordsman per hit, while an AI swordsman wtih 29+7 attack deals 76 damage to a human swordsman per hit.

Just wondering if this is planned or not.

[P-51]

I'm definitely interested in testing it. I'm going to play a few games against the current AI though so I can more easily discern the difference.

[Udolf]

Hey,
after playing swords vs the AI I noticed the AI still has an advantage in combat. I don't know if this is on purpose or not, or if it is even fixable without editing the code, but a human swordsman with 29+7 attack deals 39 damage to a AI swordsman per hit, while an AI swordsman with 29+7 attack deals 76 damage to a human swordsman per hit.

Just wondering if this is planned or not.

I just tested it out. You are right. I never noticed this, because I barely played against the AI, I always let the AI play against other AI's.
So unfortunately- even though I didn't want it- I must say: Even now, even though I've done my best to prevent it, the AI is still cheating. The swordsmen are stronger than they should.
I don't know how I could make them equal to the human swordsmen, unfortunately. So my goal of a not-cheating AI seems unreachable like this.

I tell you it was already hard to make the AI at least not cheat so much like it normally does. It cheats in so many ways that it's really hard to fix that.
For example I noticed that sometimes the AI settlements just grade up without the five citizens needed, they just do it sometimes with no special reason.
I thought that was a bug until I got the idea that this must have been done intentionally because it is not the same for human beings. I even noticed several ways the AI graded the settlements up:
Sometimes without 5 citizens, which are normally needed, and sometimes, this was the biggest cheat I saw, the AI just built the town center without even building the settlement before (which is impossible for a human being). Yes, the AI is really able to build a town center (not upgrade it, build it!).

So sorry, I don't know how to prevent the AI from cheating like this. I was able to prevent the AI from resources cheat in the beginning (+100 iron, +100 gold), I was able to prevent the AI from cheating itself resources whenever it wanted them, I was even able to prevent the AI from the cheat of building settlements or upgrading settlements without citizens (with Triggers), but now I'm running out of ideas. If you have ideas how to prevent the AI from cheating its swordsmen stronger than they are, please tell me.

I think the developers were just not able to make the AI strong enough, so when they noticed that it wasn't strong enough for skilled players, they invented all these cheats to make the fight against the AI at least a bit interesting.

[Udolf]

I'm definitely interested in testing it. I'm going to play a few games against the current AI though so I can more easily discern the difference.

The main difference is:
The current AI (not my AI but the original AI) is cheating like hell. Therefore it is in fact a completely different game against the original, cheating AI in comparison to my AI.
My AI is dependent on resources. If you kill citizens that are gathering food, this will have an impact on the AI's economy. In contrast to that, a game against the original AI is like an other Empire Earth, because the original AI doesn't need resources, therefore killing citizens won't change anything. What you actually have to do to destroy the original AI is destroying its buildings, therefore you need siege weapons which you normally don't need. And because the original AI has infinite resources, it will also build a high amount of units which are expensive, therefore you must destroy buildings like siege fabrics first of all.
You see, it's a completely different game, not comparable with games against human players, not even a bit. This is why I wanted to create a good, not-cheating AI, to play the game like you would play it against human beings.

[Udolf]

To keep the few guys that are interested in this updated:

- havent seen 1 settlement placed good ( directly at the mine), but since most were at least ok thats a minor issue .

The AI is now able to build its settlements directly next to the resources (thank you Black Star for your hint).

This is a small update so I won't make a new version for it.

I know these are small improvements, but step by step and with your support the AI becomes better and better.

[Black Star]

Hey udolf, nice to hear from you, obvisouly i love evertything improving the AI so congratz keep on going!!

[Udolf]

Ok, so here is the new Civilization of my AI. Input, please!

[P-51]

Not sure if I agree with siege CR. Why did you include this?