Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Information and discussion about Omega's patches for EE and EE:AoC (no longer in use or under development)
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Jen
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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by Jen »

he was never asked sexa

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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by Omega »

Jen wrote:he was never asked sexa
He was asked and agreed, was made a member of the patch tester group on forums, and given a download link for the alpha patch, but he didn't get a chance to try it out.
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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by Ghost »

Honestly people cry me a fucking river. It's a beta patch. You play it, give GOOD feedback on it, then you get an update in a few days BASED ON YOUR FEEDBACK.

And, honestly I think I might just start banning people who are chewing me out for the updater. You should all be fucking glad it's there, as it was supposed to prevent the "OMG, NEW VERSION, EVERYONE HAS DIFFERENT VERSIONS, WAT DO???" by giving you all the same shit. But, because most of you are half retarded, it still happened.

And, it does a lot more than that. It's not just a utility used to stuff Omega's patches down your throat. It's for people to get their game 100% updated, on the fly, so they can get into games as quickly as possibly. That way, we don't have to explain over and over "first get the 1.0.4.0 update, then the 2.0 update, then direct connect patch, then Omega's patch" (obviously simplified, it's never that easy helping someone). Now, you just hit the button and it all gets done for you, and if you'd like, you can do it piece by piece.

It was created for the benefit of people who are either new or computer illiterate, while at the same time making things easier for those who already understand what you have to do.
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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by inola »

Destroyer wrote: 1 Fail INola is an Administrator
2 I Dont See you suggesting or trying to form a Vote
Yes I'm an Administrator of the Nuckin Futs lobby and the lobby is where my power stops I don't control Empire Earth at all if I did the the original WON servers would still be running. Votes may come after it's out of beta stage.

peow130
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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by peow130 »

I like the new patch.
I like the new tropic islands maps.
I'm half and half on the updater.
It was a bit buggy, but after a slightly rocky start it did update my game to full 2.1d beta
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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by Elite »

Okay, so let me try and answer some of the contentions supporters of the patch have made. And by this I mean actual argument, not just name-calling and cries of "whiner, whiner." When someone stands up to point out something they believe is wrong, you don't call that whining. That sort of labeling is just a copout for people who can't carry on a real conversation.

First, Taco said that no one who opposed the patch has given a "real answer." So I suppose he sees nothing wrong with the fact that most of the community was so eager to accept the original patch because they believed it completely solved the glitching problem, rather than just making it a little harder (which is hardly a deterrent to those who were already dependent on glitching). Thats my first criticism - that the original patch was sold to the community on false pretenses, which then opened the door for all these additional changes to be made. If need be I can give names of respected players who as recently as the last few days believed the first patch fixed cheating. Oh and Taco, I really do miss my custom chat - I hardly think that removing the tick boxes was a worthwhile solution.

Second, you seem to be saying (and this is echoed by others) that no one who did not extensively test the patches has any right to complain. Well I take issue with this, and suggest that when you ask "Why didn't you participate in the testing?" - you are asking the wrong question. My question is, why should I have to devote my time to preventing someone from making unnecessary changes to this game? The only change anyone really wanted was for the cheating to be stopped - so we got a few extra changes in the process and no one really cared enough either way to say anything. I thought some of the changes were poorly conceived, but I recognized that it wasn't that big of a deal and eventually downloaded the patch. I thought that would be the end of changes to the game - unfortunately I was wrong. And this time I'm not going to shut up so quickly. I hope this answer was real enough for you.

Now let me address ben55's (Zeke's) concerns. Zeke I understand and agree with some of what you're saying, about alot of these units being useless and not having a great affect on gameplay. But in that case, we've basically set a precedent for messing with the game solely for an "Ah cool" factor, which I just don't see as a good thing. And I think some of these new units could end up causing alot of annoyance in certain situations. For example: people mass exploring moorish inf, groupspeeding samurai around in sword v sword combat, eco raping with 17 speed +3 range black robes in liga, or groupspeed a few huskarls with their longswords when facing CA. I also think that lowering xbow BTD has the potential to greatly increase the effectiveness of Xbow turtling in mid SH, something which I really don't see as necessary. Finally, I stand by my claim that 17 point pathfinding is bad for pre, and bad for mid. The problem with pathfinding really shows up most in 1v1 p2s. Unless you've got a perfect map, its hard to pull of expansionism against a decent PF player, due to the fact that the ability to have both iron mining and bcr in the same civ allows the pf guy to defend his base more easily, while still quickly massing clubs. I beat plenty of good exp. players with path back when pf was still 25, and saw no need for it to be buffed. And as for the effectiveness of path in mid, just talk to anyone who's seen me or hobo wall and go path swords in pocket. Unless someone on the other team goes knights, or you get rushed before you can wall, its easily possible to eco rape the entire enemy team. I've seen games where both CA pockets get devastated by one pf sword player before 20 f11, and the game is effectively over. The only logical reason for lowering PF cost is to make it viable after mid, and guns render this a fairly impossible object.

Finally, Destroyer, I honestly haven't got a clue who you are, but I wish you'd stop making personal attacks on people who have played this game for alot longer than you. Your comment about Thor failing in pre was particularly funny, seeing as mid players have done quite well at adjusting to that sett in the past. It's ALOT harder to defend a sword rush in mid than it is to stop clubs in pre - you should think or acquire some knowledge of the game before you speak.

I'm not saying I am totally opposed to patches. There are some changes I think were positive - for example: Lowering TC hp was a positive change, and upping pilum attack I think is a good change as it allows an archery range start in liga to do something against a sword rush. I'm still torn on the siege towers because they were such a great way to fuck over people who wanted to basehug late-game with mass archers, and I miss that a bit. I think shock troopers are fine - nothing wrong with re-adding a unit to digi+ that was present in atomic anyway. And I think that trying to find a way to equalize animal distribution would be a good step, especially for setts like pre and liga - though once again I'm torn because I would miss the added element of having to adapt to a disadvantaged situation at times.
Basically, I think that people originally got excited about this patch business because it would stop cheating. That didn't happen, and then we seemed to get carried away wanting new units and new strats. Well, I like this game the way it is. There's nothing on the market right now that can compete with the replay value of Empire Earth. And I don't think any changes are necessary to make the game better.

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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by peow130 »

Wow elite, that is one hell of a response.
I can see your distress now.
And i do agree with some of the things, especially the anti-cheating. It seems as though we've moved on from getting rid of cheaters, to actually changing the game.
Though some things i don't agree with at all.

I for one love to see new strategies emerge.
I love EE, but i don't like playing mid SH and mod TL and p2s as the only setts. Especially when only the same strats from 4 years ago are being used.
I mean, honestly, how long has longsword wing/CA pocket with balli been in use? 4 years? 5 years?
I would love to see somebody just start flooding another player wiith moorish inf for the first 5F11, rather than slutting with the seemingly overpowered longsword.

Alot of the units are just for the "ah cool" factor. I don't see this as a bad thing at all, though. Personally, i'd rather see a variety of units in one army rather than a stale single unit army.
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ben55
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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by ben55 »

17 point pathfinding doesn't make a big impact on middle with those 8 points you can't really get nothing that would improve you maybe cit hp/speed or buildings btd, but you can't add another sword upgrade which is the big thing you sacrifice by going pf. You could in theory drop hunting if you have a ton of hunt(lavanger pointed this out possibly making it op), and get the extra sword upgrade.

I consider Jossos a fairly good pre player he went PF vs me Expan(didnt use gay iron civ used a civ that would be present on 1.1d), and he had a an excellent map and I had a horrible map. Trees all around my base, and he had 2 mountains by his double iron, so he was basically immune to eco raiding and I was at the mercy of his, but I just simply expan turtled got the hunt on the map and ran him out of food. I lost prob 40-50 cits that game, and he lost less 15. Expan allowing easier forwards and a better econ made the difference. This is only one circumstance, and you may be better than Jossos at PF idk, but Expan is above and beyond the best 30 points to spend in pre IMO, but would it bug me if it was back to 25 no not really I don't like the play style of PF, and never use it, but I don't think it is harmful at 17, but you have played pre probably x2 long as I have, so you have probably seen it used more.

In liga I don't think anyone would live long enough to have lvl 10 black robes lol since most ligas end before 30f11, but if they do I am sure you have the military at 30+F11 to not be annoyed by them. Group speeding samurai will fail pretty hard to make enough to be effective would pretty much cripple any movement bonus they get from the longswords. Moorish Inf on explore is an interesting concept, but to mass enough to put on explore would put you at a disadvantage in an equal skilled game. Huskarls are 60hp and GOLD. The Xbow thing may be valid since when looking at it I didn't think about aoc, and the synergy with expansionism. That with the mix of the longbow changes might make going all bows a pretty big nuisance to kill if they go full out turtle.

I mean it is a hassle constant updating and reading whats new, and I agree on that 100% that is my biggest complaint. Omega was pasting some of the whispers he got of people complaining about new units. Some people are so clueless it is sad either they can't read or choose not to read the patch notes.
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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by d-dog »

I mean it is a hassle constant updating and reading whats new, and I agree on that 100% that is my biggest complaint. Omega was pasting some of the whispers he got of people complaining about new units. Some people are so clueless it is sad either they can't read or choose not to read the patch note
You missing the point, I shouldn't have to read up on the patch notes on a game i've been playing for what, well I got the came as soon as AoC came out, so w/e how many years that is, I shouldn't have to read up on new units and shit hes adding, I just want to play. It's really not that complicated at all, just let me fucking play without changing the game, which was the intention of this website in the first place. I don't care if they don't change the game that much, they still change it, fuck I just want to play, thats as simple as I can make this arguement, I JUST WANT TO PLAY THE GAME I GREW UP PLAYING.
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Elite
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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by Elite »

Just a few things to point out.

I don't use hunting in my Mid SH path civ. I use the standard mid sword rush bonuses, and drop building BTD/foraging for pathfinding. If you're in pocket and you wall forage is unnecessary, you have plenty of food from start resources and forage to mass until 8 and go rape a pocket, upgrading en route. If you lure hippos and mass hunt you'll have plenty of food to keep a good force of swords out raiding whilst still massing farms. If you aren't getting eco'd, dropping forage doesn't hunt a whole lot - its still easy to get 3-4 farms by 20 f11 while still keeping a good army size. Its also possible to go pf in 1v1 if you have a good base, and keep the enemy on the defensive. I don't think dropping PF cost makes it much more powerful in mid, but its already a very effective strat in 4v4. And as for pre - yes it is difficult to beat a good exp. player with path, but its possible if you start raiding early with multiple control groups and keep them on the defensive. And you can play like Jossos and sit a prophet in the trees somewhere, which takes care of any mass clubs from the exp. guy. Basically, even with path at 25 a really good pre player could make your life miserable if you tried to turtle - no point buffing the power. As for the other units, it seems like they're either going to be useless, or really gay in certain situations. I played a long liga game in nano with bc the other day in which he seemed to enjoy spamming inf into my eco from the sides of the map every 5 f11 - black robes could have made that situation even more annoying. Needless to say I nuked him to death for his insolence, but I don't think its a good idea to create more ways for people to play like jerkoffs. Either way, I just don't see the point in messing with a game that had nothing wrong with it. The old strats are obviously fun, or why would we all still be playing?


ben55 wrote:17 point pathfinding doesn't make a big impact on middle with those 8 points you can't really get nothing that would improve you maybe cit hp/speed or buildings btd, but you can't add another sword upgrade which is the big thing you sacrifice by going pf. You could in theory drop hunting if you have a ton of hunt(lavanger pointed this out possibly making it op), and get the extra sword upgrade.

I consider Jossos a fairly good pre player he went PF vs me Expan(didnt use gay iron civ used a civ that would be present on 1.1d), and he had a an excellent map and I had a horrible map. Trees all around my base, and he had 2 mountains by his double iron, so he was basically immune to eco raiding and I was at the mercy of his, but I just simply expan turtled got the hunt on the map and ran him out of food. I lost prob 40-50 cits that game, and he lost less 15. Expan allowing easier forwards and a better econ made the difference. This is only one circumstance, and you may be better than Jossos at PF idk, but Expan is above and beyond the best 30 points to spend in pre IMO, but would it bug me if it was back to 25 no not really I don't like the play style of PF, and never use it, but I don't think it is harmful at 17, but you have played pre probably x2 long as I have, so you have probably seen it used more.

In liga I don't think anyone would live long enough to have lvl 10 black robes lol since most ligas end before 30f11, but if they do I am sure you have the military at 30+F11 to not be annoyed by them. Group speeding samurai will fail pretty hard to make enough to be effective would pretty much cripple any movement bonus they get from the longswords. Moorish Inf on explore is an interesting concept, but to mass enough to put on explore would put you at a disadvantage in an equal skilled game. Huskarls are 60hp and GOLD. The Xbow thing may be valid since when looking at it I didn't think about aoc, and the synergy with expansionism. That with the mix of the longbow changes might make going all bows a pretty big nuisance to kill if they go full out turtle.

I mean it is a hassle constant updating and reading whats new, and I agree on that 100% that is my biggest complaint. Omega was pasting some of the whispers he got of people complaining about new units. Some people are so clueless it is sad either they can't read or choose not to read the patch notes.

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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by Elite »

D-dog is a little rough in his verbiage, but honestly, he's saying the same thing I am. This is a fun game, and I want to be able to play it without having to worry about constantly adapting because somebody can't keep their hands off. If I want a new game, I'll go buy one. But there's no RTS out there that has the same appeal as this one. So to all the people who want new strategies and new styles of play I say this: There's plenty of other RTS games out there, if you aren't happy with this one, why don't you go find another game instead of ruining it for those of us who are happy with original EE?


d-dog wrote:
I mean it is a hassle constant updating and reading whats new, and I agree on that 100% that is my biggest complaint. Omega was pasting some of the whispers he got of people complaining about new units. Some people are so clueless it is sad either they can't read or choose not to read the patch note
You missing the point, I shouldn't have to read up on the patch notes on a game i've been playing for what, well I got the came as soon as AoC came out, so w/e how many years that is, I shouldn't have to read up on new units and shit hes adding, I just want to play. It's really not that complicated at all, just let me fucking play without changing the game, which was the intention of this website in the first place. I don't care if they don't change the game that much, they still change it, fuck I just want to play, thats as simple as I can make this arguement, I JUST WANT TO PLAY THE GAME I GREW UP PLAYING.

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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by ben55 »

But Elite those units have almost no advantage over the ca/sword/knight, tank/inf/at, imp/goon/gren strategies your game is almost in no danger from those units at all. Black robes have shit for hp 2 tanks in your eco could own 50 of them god help them if a pandora gets a hold of them.

Pathfinding in pre at 25 points is an exclusive pocket/1v1 civ at 17 it can play wing as well that is how I see it, and it doesn't annoy me at all.(but that is my opinion I certainly don't speak for everyone or try to)

I don't know if people aren't understanding the fact that these units/changes have no direct impact on competitive game play.(Excluding pathfinding which we are debating right now and possibly the buffed xbow build time)

I understand the argument shouldn't of messed with it at all, but minus two things vanilla and patch d are identical in game play with some minor improvements for patch d. (maps, tc lower health, a10 buff) just to name a few.

Remember this is a BETA, and I don't agree with how it was kind of forced on the community, but at least now this is out in the open hopefully the community as a whole will decide what they want.
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peow130
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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by peow130 »

DO NOT WANT THE NEW XBOW BTD.
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Elite
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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by Elite »

Just demonstrated exp. archer boom on wing. Unless you get hit with no exp. cav/sword rush, I see this strat as being able to take on both pocket and wing at the same time. Fast building xbows to counter swords, buffed longbows slay CA or knights.

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Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by Hello0 »

omg stop writing books in here pls ._.

i changed my opinion: i have no problem with the patch, actually its nice but... none of my cracks for ee does work anymore so i have to start with cd whats actually gay ._.

and...i dont get a game with more than 3 palyers running o.0

i'd say: make this autopatch thing cumpolsory..so that everybody has the same version(patch it or lobby wont run..sth like that)..we may lose ppl but i think real ee players will go along and better having 70 ppl who are able to paly a game than 120 ppl and everybody ahs other version

Edit: I forgot to say: pls leave away changes in civ costs ._. its ok how it was

Edit edit: just leave it like it is now!! waah

hello ._.
I am sweet.

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