1.1e

Information and discussion about Omega's patches for EE and EE:AoC (no longer in use or under development)
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Wardog
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1.1e

Post by Wardog »

Here are my requests:
1. Cargo trucks to be used as APC's with increased speed, armour and hp.
2. Missle Troopers added in digi to help fight air whores and since they are infantry they take 1 pop and can be built from the barracks while the AA tanks take 2 pop and need to be built from Tank factorys which are usually being used to make normal tanks, also the missle troopers have more fire power than the normal pussy AA infantry.
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Elite
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Re: 1.1e

Post by Elite »

1. Mobile AA units take 1 pop not 2.
2. Bomber whoring is relatively easy to counter with a properly deployed combination of anti-air AND FIGHTERS. In pre-space a relatively small number of fighters can render bombers fairly useless, but for some reason most pre-space players think AA spam is the only counter to air.

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Wardog
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Re: 1.1e

Post by Wardog »

if you are trying to fight on land the most fighters you can possibly have while still booming is 15 and trust me i've learned MANY times 50 bombers>15 fighters PERIOD not to mention they cost a shit load compared to aa
Also AA tanks take 2 pop since they are tanks.
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taco
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Re: 1.1e

Post by taco »

id love to argue about this but i dont think there would b a 1.1e, as much as im believe the minor touchups(not nessasarily yours stated in this thread) could help. it would b altering the game, in which a few will cry about rendering omegas valuable time which in the past and would b in the future if this patch was made wasted.

ben55
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Re: 1.1e

Post by ben55 »

i'd be cool with never hearing patch and empire earth used together ever again, but wardog you can easily have more than 20 fighters a land army and boom in WW2+ you have 190 pop.
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Re: 1.1e

Post by Elite »

If you have only the pop and/or resources for 15 fighters whilst your enemy has the pop and resources for 50 bombers you clearly fucked up somewhere else in the game. I don't see how altering the game to ameliorate the effects of said fuckup is a viable option. Getting bombed to death late game is the consequence of allowing someone to get so far ahead. Also, you could probably shoot down 50 bombers with 15 fighters before they reached their target if you are the same age as your opponent. I know that when I use bombers in pre-space I use them to target wonders, which usually involves alot of waypointing around AA concentrations. It just doesn't work when the enemy has more than 5-10 fighters waiting for you and knows how to micro them properly.

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Ghost
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Re: 1.1e

Post by Ghost »

Elite wrote:Getting bombed to death late game is the consequence of allowing someone to get so far ahead.
This is what I'm agreeing with here. If they take bomber bonus(es) in civ along with pop cap which allows them to mass, and still get that late in the game, then by all means they should be allowed to bomber whore.

As for the new patch, it's going to be entirely based on the results of the poll which was taken earlier. Any additional changes from vanilla will require a vote for it to even make it to any subsequent beta.
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Wardog
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Re: 1.1e

Post by Wardog »

No offense ghost but pre is not your main set and you don't fully understand. Certain people will hide in their bass either massing clubs or towers and let most of their team die while they boom, then sometimes the dead allies will even trib them to make them boom faster untill they get to ww2 and then call in the bombers and NO one can single handedly out boom a compitent defense whore if the player was playing aggressively at all.

ALSO where the fuck are you getting 190 pop last i checked it was 172.
ALSO more importanly even if you do keep up with the bomber boomers what keeps them from bombing the rest of your allies besides making a new airport.
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Re: 1.1e

Post by Ghost »

Pre isn't my main sett because I don't have a main sett anymore. I've played Pre, or any sett, enough to give a noteworthy opinion on it. So, I DO understand, and if you don't like that then (to put it bluntly) you can fuck off.

If it meant winning the game, then sure I would leave my team hanging a little so I could bomb the shit out of the enemy. Last time I checked, it's a strategy. If you don't like it, or you don't play like it, it doesn't mean the game should be changed to accommodate you. I know of FAR more lame and/or overpowered strategies than massing bombers, but I don't ask for the next patch to nerf them or to add better ways to counter them.

BTW, for 4v4s, once you epoch to WW2 and research the pop cap upgrade at the hospital, your pop cap becomes 189 if you have the 15% pop cap bonus in your civ (165 w/o). Pretty close to 190 if you ask me.
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•§ITHLORD§•(surfer): artylery give no many domage on aa mobile since 3 day

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Re: 1.1e

Post by taco »

I DONT PLAY PRE2 but bombers are fine in mod games(okay slightly strong but commonsense can kill them with ease) so if they are fine in there age and sett. nurffing them would only make them worse for there age. which would render them rather useless. all for pre2 hahahaha no thx buddy

ben55
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Re: 1.1e

Post by ben55 »

the only time b2s have been overpowered was when mod tl you had 25pt expan and you could get hp/speed without losing pop cap or any fighter/eco bonuses. hp/speed b2s versus no civ upgrade AA is not fun at all. in pre you have building range at least almost 95% of the time while only about 2/3rds of the pockets have bomber speed. AA range>bomber speed unless they have more bombers than you do have AA which isn't the bombers fault it is your poor play's fault, so i don't see how anyone can complain about them in pre. i find it funny you are complaining about ww2 bombers too which are pretty shitty tbh partisans and aa eat them alive even without building range/inf range.
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Sexacutioner
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Re: 1.1e

Post by Sexacutioner »

the only bomber whore in pre is elite cause he cant win on land :P

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Re: 1.1e

Post by Elite »

The reason I try to jump to bombers so hard in pre-space is because ground warfare in standard variant with ~20-30 pop is not fun. Crippling the enemy via destruction of wonders and mines from the air can be accomplished far more efficiently and with less pop than trying to slog through mass amounts of towers and walls. If you allow the enemy to get far enough ahead that they're able to cripple you with bombers before you are able to take the appropriate countermeasures, then you deserve what you got. I absolutely despise late-game combat in pre-space when everyone is digi+ because it inevitably becomes a clusterfuck of tempests, siege, and 100% accurate towers. I know in my own case most of the games I win with bombers I'm usually 2-3 ages ahead of the most advanced opponent with fully upgraded bombers + bomber speed in civ. If you allow someone to get that far ahead, you deserve whats coming. I have seen teams win games because they sit and ishtar turtle while the other side tries to slow-push with artillery and expansions and the defensive side is eventually able to close the age gap. Bombers are the most effective counter to this strategy.

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Sexacutioner
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Re: 1.1e

Post by Sexacutioner »

ive never really liked tempests and only use them against plane whores, and if you utilize fortresses to give you larger army pop then ishtar really isnt a problem, especially if you have pop in your civ which i rarely do, i usually never even make airports in pre unless its islands because air is quite easy to defend against if you dont mine actually making the units and aa when you can, the mobile aa takes iron i think (rarely need them except for to bring with army if you dont want to send cits ) so if thats what you need to save your ass then you should make them

i always laugh when someone says they cant make army because of pop when they have 20k food stored up or 15k stone and still mining 3 stone mines along with 20k wood and still have 60 cits on wood

but what makes bombers most easy to kill with, most is the lack of players actually setting up defences at all, ive seen so many times where people are epocs ahead and have no aa then end up dying because they dont even have fighters lol, another thing is the fact once players see a wall they just stop attacking, if you can get inside a wall with a descent army and a hero with zeus you can destroy the eco of the other player(s) but thats a rarity, usually only time you see the roaming armies is before a wall has been put up

you can even focus an attack at one spot then drop some cits in another spot using seige towers to build up another base inside their walls and it would probably go unnoticed

before everyone started using path, barbs were a great unit to use to really skrew up the other team

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Re: 1.1e

Post by Elite »

Pop cap isn't really viable in a club civ since exp. was returned to 25 points. If you try to use a pop cap civ vs the iron mining + exp. civ you will generally get ravaged if the other guy has a clue how to play. Even with pop in civ the most I usually have available for army is 20-25 pop. And thats with 1-2 stone mines and maybe 20 woodcutters. Also, ground armies can be alot more easily countered when you are still a few ages behind, whereas if they have air and you haven't got to WW1 yet you are fairly well fucked. Its quite possible to lose an Inf/Siege ground army if you get hit by a mob of horsemen, or get attacked by several enemy players from several directions with lower age gun inf, or if someone uses a prophet cleverly. And fighting your way to the enemy wonders (which should be your primary objective) is a real bitch because you basically have to take that 20-30 pop army all the way to the rear of the enemy territory and still have enough siege to do some damage. If I know I'm ahead of the enemy I would much rather fight a defensive battle and go for the knockout blow at WW2 or mod with bombers. The reason so many pre-space players have a problem with bombers is because most don't really understand that to defend against them you need a combination of fighters and AA. So therefore I'm able to make people spend massive amounts of resources trying to cover every possible route to their wonders with AA when 10-15 fighters would accomplish the same purpose.

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