Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Information and discussion about Omega's patches for EE and EE:AoC (no longer in use or under development)
Locked
User avatar
_Rs_ Megabullet
Needs a Slap
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:32 am

Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by _Rs_ Megabullet »

Uhh just maybe we should start a vote poll?
So that we either play forced with the patch or without it.
Either way this isnt helping.
I SAY POLL!

User avatar
Sexacutioner
Nemesis
Posts: 600
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:40 pm

Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by Sexacutioner »

your gonna vote on what?
something that hasnt been mass tested and debated on?

User avatar
Moo
Spam4food
Posts: 943
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 pm
Xfire: Moo2790
Lobby Username: Captian Moo Falcon
Location: My House

Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by Moo »

Elite wrote:Okay, so let me try and answer some of the contentions supporters of the patch have made. And by this I mean actual argument, not just name-calling and cries of "whiner, whiner." When someone stands up to point out something they believe is wrong, you don't call that whining. That sort of labeling is just a copout for people who can't carry on a real conversation.

First, Taco said that no one who opposed the patch has given a "real answer." So I suppose he sees nothing wrong with the fact that most of the community was so eager to accept the original patch because they believed it completely solved the glitching problem, rather than just making it a little harder (which is hardly a deterrent to those who were already dependent on glitching). Thats my first criticism - that the original patch was sold to the community on false pretenses, which then opened the door for all these additional changes to be made. If need be I can give names of respected players who as recently as the last few days believed the first patch fixed cheating. Oh and Taco, I really do miss my custom chat - I hardly think that removing the tick boxes was a worthwhile solution.

Second, you seem to be saying (and this is echoed by others) that no one who did not extensively test the patches has any right to complain. Well I take issue with this, and suggest that when you ask "Why didn't you participate in the testing?" - you are asking the wrong question. My question is, why should I have to devote my time to preventing someone from making unnecessary changes to this game? The only change anyone really wanted was for the cheating to be stopped - so we got a few extra changes in the process and no one really cared enough either way to say anything. I thought some of the changes were poorly conceived, but I recognized that it wasn't that big of a deal and eventually downloaded the patch. I thought that would be the end of changes to the game - unfortunately I was wrong. And this time I'm not going to shut up so quickly. I hope this answer was real enough for you.

Now let me address ben55's (Zeke's) concerns. Zeke I understand and agree with some of what you're saying, about alot of these units being useless and not having a great affect on gameplay. But in that case, we've basically set a precedent for messing with the game solely for an "Ah cool" factor, which I just don't see as a good thing. And I think some of these new units could end up causing alot of annoyance in certain situations. For example: people mass exploring moorish inf, groupspeeding samurai around in sword v sword combat, eco raping with 17 speed +3 range black robes in liga, or groupspeed a few huskarls with their longswords when facing CA. I also think that lowering xbow BTD has the potential to greatly increase the effectiveness of Xbow turtling in mid SH, something which I really don't see as necessary. Finally, I stand by my claim that 17 point pathfinding is bad for pre, and bad for mid. The problem with pathfinding really shows up most in 1v1 p2s. Unless you've got a perfect map, its hard to pull of expansionism against a decent PF player, due to the fact that the ability to have both iron mining and bcr in the same civ allows the pf guy to defend his base more easily, while still quickly massing clubs. I beat plenty of good exp. players with path back when pf was still 25, and saw no need for it to be buffed. And as for the effectiveness of path in mid, just talk to anyone who's seen me or hobo wall and go path swords in pocket. Unless someone on the other team goes knights, or you get rushed before you can wall, its easily possible to eco rape the entire enemy team. I've seen games where both CA pockets get devastated by one pf sword player before 20 f11, and the game is effectively over. The only logical reason for lowering PF cost is to make it viable after mid, and guns render this a fairly impossible object.

Finally, Destroyer, I honestly haven't got a clue who you are, but I wish you'd stop making personal attacks on people who have played this game for alot longer than you. Your comment about Thor failing in pre was particularly funny, seeing as mid players have done quite well at adjusting to that sett in the past. It's ALOT harder to defend a sword rush in mid than it is to stop clubs in pre - you should think or acquire some knowledge of the game before you speak.

I'm not saying I am totally opposed to patches. There are some changes I think were positive - for example: Lowering TC hp was a positive change, and upping pilum attack I think is a good change as it allows an archery range start in liga to do something against a sword rush. I'm still torn on the siege towers because they were such a great way to fuck over people who wanted to basehug late-game with mass archers, and I miss that a bit. I think shock troopers are fine - nothing wrong with re-adding a unit to digi+ that was present in atomic anyway. And I think that trying to find a way to equalize animal distribution would be a good step, especially for setts like pre and liga - though once again I'm torn because I would miss the added element of having to adapt to a disadvantaged situation at times.
Basically, I think that people originally got excited about this patch business because it would stop cheating. That didn't happen, and then we seemed to get carried away wanting new units and new strats. Well, I like this game the way it is. There's nothing on the market right now that can compete with the replay value of Empire Earth. And I don't think any changes are necessary to make the game better.
He Said that the Pacthes are gonna help Make the Mods Win a Game or two but i dont think sexa needs a pacth to Beat Thor Secondly I dont have anything to do with Swords in Mid and Clubs in Pre
d-dog wrote:
I mean it is a hassle constant updating and reading whats new, and I agree on that 100% that is my biggest complaint. Omega was pasting some of the whispers he got of people complaining about new units. Some people are so clueless it is sad either they can't read or choose not to read the patch note
You missing the point, I shouldn't have to read up on the patch notes on a game i've been playing for what, well I got the came as soon as AoC came out, so w/e how many years that is, I shouldn't have to read up on new units and shit hes adding, I just want to play. It's really not that complicated at all, just let me fucking play without changing the game, which was the intention of this website in the first place. I don't care if they don't change the game that much, they still change it, fuck I just want to play, thats as simple as I can make this arguement, I JUST WANT TO PLAY THE GAME I GREW UP PLAYING.

We Do let you play, Dont Log in to The lobby :roll: its not yours to control Do you pay for it? No. its your Game Yes Not your Server
_Rs_ Megabullet wrote:Uhh just maybe we should start a vote poll?
So that we either play forced with the patch or without it.
Either way this isnt helping.
I SAY POLL!
Finally Someone Listens
{Lusitania}•Ωmega whispers to you: you just owned d-dog
{Lusitania}•Ωmega whispers to you: lol
[Ak]Stigma: i have windows 9
nick11: Poor peow
nick11: i respected him
Moo is dead, not big surprise.

User avatar
_Rs_ Megabullet
Needs a Slap
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:32 am

Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by _Rs_ Megabullet »

If only Sexa wouldnt be such a hard ass thinking he is always right.
Lol what´s funny is that matthew (Omega) cares so much about this that his nickname is
Not a "real" EE Player--if you have a time machine, go back to 2001 and let me know this!

Lmao

User avatar
Moo
Spam4food
Posts: 943
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 pm
Xfire: Moo2790
Lobby Username: Captian Moo Falcon
Location: My House

Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by Moo »

We need a Poll. Or were gonna have Flame Wars and Mass Complaints. The Poll needs What
WE LIKE
and
WHAT WE DONT LIKE
Simple like that Get People to vote and done
{Lusitania}•Ωmega whispers to you: you just owned d-dog
{Lusitania}•Ωmega whispers to you: lol
[Ak]Stigma: i have windows 9
nick11: Poor peow
nick11: i respected him
Moo is dead, not big surprise.

taco
Civ Nazi
Posts: 539
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:46 pm
Lobby Username: taco

Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by taco »

Elite wrote: First, Taco said that no one who opposed the patch has given a "real answer." So I suppose he sees nothing wrong with the fact that most of the community was so eager to accept the original patch because they believed it completely solved the glitching problem, rather than just making it a little harder (which is hardly a deterrent to those who were already dependent on glitching). Thats my first criticism - that the original patch was sold to the community on false pretenses, which then opened the door for all these additional changes to be made. If need be I can give names of respected players who as recently as the last few days believed the first patch fixed cheating. Oh and Taco, I really do miss my custom chat - I hardly think that removing the tick boxes was a worthwhile solution.
okay elite get off ur high horse, some things u say make sense, somethings u need to give up on and let go. the original purpose of the patch was supposably meant to stop eco glitching yes WE all no ur right it didnt, but it prevents it to a degree, lets give this a real world eg since u think its pointless, y do we try and prevent terrorism since we cant stop it? ppl who used trainers heavily relied on custom chat to use the cheats. now as long as its not a 1v1 others will c it. this imo has majorly cut down ppl using trainers.
my question is y after the 3rd or so patch u start to argue about the original game u had the chance to say hey omega the 1st patch didnt stop gltiching lets get rid of it, i dont recall u saying anything. YOU let the door open YOU let this happen and YOU are making a much bigger deal out of it then what it is. the community isnt forced to use the patch by any means, every1 can just play without it, no1 is stopping u. these few changes are in a BETA patch. analyse the units point out where they are overpowered and they can b either fixed or removed. many players a skeptical of change see a few new units and are like wow wtf i have to relearn the entire game. ppl are much more prone to complaining about change then welcoming it. yet history tells us its necessary which is why u will find more ppl on here making stupid posts complaining about the patch in general.(this should of been done late last year, not now).

with expan being bak to 30 points mixing xbows/archers is less effective against either sword or ca rush, vsing another sword boomer knight sword still dominates it. sammies are expensive and i would not mix them with my swords vs swords untill i had an eco to compliment it. this owuld mean they are more of a late game unit which is fine because u shouldn't b using just swords late game anyway. most combos using sammies are decent but their lack of hp makes them only power units for mid. easy to pick off.

pf is a bitch in 4v4 mid. it isn't used very often but it can put the enitre team on defense. i believe it only works so well because alot of mid players dont no how 2 play against it since its not seen to often. i dont have much trouble over coming pf. and only have trouble with it in 1v1s when they have an awesome tree line and get the walls up in 2f11, given more games for ppl to get use2 it, im sure it wouldn't be such a good strat

i agree with ur idea about moorish inf explore. there starting speed of 16 + 14f 14i and btd will make them spammable in 1v1s 2v2s, haven't yet tried it but it seems logical.

peow130
Noob @ Everything
Posts: 1137
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:28 pm

Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by peow130 »

ppl who used trainers heavily relied on custom chat to use the cheats.
k thanks, thats why we got rid of custom chat and i forgot.

I don't agree with the moorish inf spam.
1 xbow can kill one of those things 3 times over.
Image
SlipKnoT wrote:swords are 30 u idiot.

Virgo
Lurker
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:54 pm
Lobby Username: Virgo

Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by Virgo »

It seems we all know what the "concerns" are for this patch and patching in general as Elite has pointed out. This is only a beta patch everyone so let's not get too excited.We must as a community remember the time and effort people are making to better the game.

However, in the future I would recommend a poll before any patch (beta included) is introduced. I noticed that there have been "discussion" topics on previous patches but what do they really accomplish? Definitely not defining as a whole what the community prefers. I feel the most realistic way of gaining any concept of what the community wants is to have a poll for the patches(i.e. Vote for which ones you think should stay or not) that lasts for a reasonable amount of time and maybe could be displayed in the lobby like "Merry Christmas" was just to get people to notice it and come vote. Then implement any changes in a beta version to be tested in real game play. If we as a whole can agree on what patches we might be interested in playing with; less opposition to testing beta versions should show.

Then after a sufficient amount of playing time has passed in the beta version we can voice any concerns we have with the changes that were allowed.

Again, we have to give feedback on the patches during their beta version that is our responsibility. We should not however have to play with ("test") updates that we don't see fit. Maybe we should have a say in what goes into these patches( if patch at all) in the first place.

First and Last post in this topic,
Thanks

peow130
Noob @ Everything
Posts: 1137
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:28 pm

Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by peow130 »

Why the fuck do longbows have 20 attack?
That's retarded.
They already countered their counter effectively before, and now theyre killing other things that they shouldnt.
I.E. those useless huskarls.
Image
SlipKnoT wrote:swords are 30 u idiot.

User avatar
Moo
Spam4food
Posts: 943
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 pm
Xfire: Moo2790
Lobby Username: Captian Moo Falcon
Location: My House

Re: Some Comments on the Patch (And alteration of EE in general)

Post by Moo »

Well The Pacth is over and everything was hopefully fixed I Still think pacthes are good, Omega could use a Thank you btw guys
{Lusitania}•Ωmega whispers to you: you just owned d-dog
{Lusitania}•Ωmega whispers to you: lol
[Ak]Stigma: i have windows 9
nick11: Poor peow
nick11: i respected him
Moo is dead, not big surprise.

Locked

Return to “Patches”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests