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AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby Captain Nemo » Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:45 am

yeah eis but not "wasting" 30 points on exp makes the eec late game orientated civs even better late game than exp civs. I have no problem playing late game on aoc at all I'd say.
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby Eisregen » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:50 pm

maybe but a good xbow trebs sword mix without expan needs much more time dont think it works well.
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby herik » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:37 am

Tbh i made a good sword slide civ (eec style (no special bonuses)), had xbow etc etc, but tbh nemo, eis has a point here, with exp all u need is one cit to make a tc at the mines that are not near your base for instance, he will expan a lot faster then you + tc's are harder to kill (time waste)
scenario= 14fll his got 3 farms, 5 barracks, 3rd iron most liekly, u've got 1 farm, 2 mines, one popped, by 20fll, his sent 1 cit to each mine b4 you, probably both have hero, you've got 2-3 farms, 4th barrack, by the time u start mixing, he would already have enuf on wood to make stables/arch range/siege etc etc, when your 2/3 of the way.
I made this scenario up, I'm sure I got the fll's wrong but w/e you get the point, the exp player will have the advantage of taking the mines b4 you, therefore slowing your mix/boom/expansion.
If your vsing a player like texas you have to kill him early otherwise you lose basically.
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby Captain Nemo » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:21 pm

Im talking about 4v4 games herik, where the pop cap will stop your cit massing. The exp player will have a window of advantage of like 5-10f11, untill the non exp civ catches up and pulls ahead. I'll admit it's probably best applied to ca strats, where you can keep up the ca production at same rate as the exp player. I haven't tried a sword/x-bow/treb civ without exp, but depending on who u are vs it could work just as well as a exp civ of the same kind. Obviusly with the 5-10f11 delay which could be your death. Thats a gamble u always make, also with exp civs (just at different timeframes in the game).
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby herik » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:56 pm

the real question is nemo, do you give up btd on barracks for a less effective rush to get pop cap? I'm pretty sure 95% of exp civ always have pop cap
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby Captain Nemo » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:09 pm

You're missing the point. Im not rushing. It's a boom /late game civ.
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby Arntzen » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:02 pm

herik wrote:the real question is nemo, do you give up btd on barracks for a less effective rush to get pop cap? I'm pretty sure 95% of exp civ always have pop cap

Standard Sword civilization you give up Building BTD and Hunting for Farming and Pop Cap.

What Nemo is talking about is a civilization without expansionism that is really strong late game. I've seen he use it and it only really get's shut off against a really aggressive side (normally an unfair side as well). This civ works because it counters the people who goes expansionism and think: "hey I will out-boom all since I've not been hit much". Where Nemo will have strong balista, gold and wood and cavalry that's basic upgraded I believe. And of course such a civilization DOES have Pop Cap.
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby Eisregen » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:42 am

ca civs will work since u can use all ur food for booming but sword mix civs w/o expan fail against rushes and lose vs expan civs .
plus i dont think expan is waste of points.
my expan 4v4 civs have all needed units upgrades + pop cap, dont think u have better units in a no expan civ
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby Captain Nemo » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:56 am

Eisregen wrote:ca civs will work since u can use all ur food for booming but sword mix civs w/o expan fail against rushes and lose vs expan civs .
plus i dont think expan is waste of points.
my expan 4v4 civs have all needed units upgrades + pop cap, dont think u have better units in a no expan civ


1) I can balance my eco enough to get a proper boom+army even if I have to use food for army units aswell

2) My eco based no exp civ works just as poorly against a rush as a exp civ.

3) No exp is not a waste of points, but is 30 points worth it? In 4v4 I think not.

4) Obviusly 30 extra points will give you extra upgrades on something, don't be silly.
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby Eisregen » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:49 am

i just say i dont need more unit upgrads in a civ [full sword , bows rang+ atk, trebs rang and firerate]
dont think u use more upgrads in a no expan civ but idk..
late game both civs work but w/o expan u have ur boom slower + if u fail u cant rebuild that easy.
and if u dont use expan u will waste civ point on a secend eco bonus...
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby taco » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:51 am

in a 4v4 pop cap is almost always necessary in the late game, i hate sacrificing my building btd for it. but something had to go. i failed to see pop cap in your explanation eis.
in 4v4 focusing on building a good army is more important then ur cits for this reason alone settlement civs are very strong. a variation on a sword slut civ i use( i stole from someone sorry i cant remember) is 2 rax slut on 1 iron after your towers popping the iron and getting iron mining. you will be able to produce your swords constantly and cits constantly while getting early upgrades for them. it doesn't take you long to get to your 3rd rax and 2nd iron either. most expan civs don't and cant produce constantly out of all their tcs anyway.
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby Eisregen » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:21 am

i use pop cap, i know 2 rax sword slide w/o expan and it works realy good for me but my point was if u wanna mix fast 3 diff units like sword/xbow/trebst expan is the stronger choose.
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby taco » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:46 am

my question to u is why are u mixing so many units so fast? u have a pocket u should be maximising ur army size before adding mixing units. your only hurting ur game if u try to do it all at the same time.
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby Eisregen » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:03 am

bc i like playing like that.
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Postby Captain Nemo » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:16 am

of course u can play how u like eis, but we're really debating what works, and what is good to do if u wanna win games. And I agree with taco, getting a good army and a hero is priority number 1. Eco will catch up np. And with the 1 mine TC started swords u can defend allright while getting fast eco. You just gotta hope the opponent doesn't push too hard with cav archers aswell, where your slightly smaller army size will be a problem.

btw how can an eco up be a waste? It will allow to get better eco and in late game u can get away with using less cits and get room for more army.
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