AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

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Captain Nemo
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by Captain Nemo »

80 cits in 7f11? :D Don't even get that many in the pop cap race rofl. And same amount of swords :D I guess it's more exdraordinary than the 180-190 pop cobra suggests... Going swords! :D

Lets get real. Enigma was a good late game performer, who excelled at beating swordplayers due to his usual sword/xbow/siege mix. He would normally have around 50 - 60 cits max at 10f11, and I challenge u all to find a screen to prove me wrong.
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Omega
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by Omega »

Enigma's 7 TC start explodes versus a legitimate sword rush. Now, versus a Warrman sword rush (esp. his meta sword rush)? Yeah, I can see a 7 TC start beating that, but only because he was probably one of the least effective sword rushers I've ever seen. Decent timeline, but his army control and use of units was just plain bad. You could probably effectively defend his sword rush by building 2-3 towers, some houses, and then falling asleep. at least that would probably work until 7-10 f11 or so. As for all the other 'sword rushes' that Enigma beat with that strat, please keep in mind these were primarily 2-rax EXP sword rushes, played by people who really didn't have a lot of experience with rushing and just wanted to boom, because hey, the entire AoC mid metagame was focused on mid and late game combat at that point in time, or at least the vast majority of it was.

Texas Ranger's start does fairly well against a sword rush, if you play it properly, the map is appropriately sized, and it's NOT 3v3 or 4v4. Can you beat it with an excellent sword rush though? Certainly. How many players can play sword rush that well? Not very many, especially since if you're going to beat it, you need to be able to keep up your economy, which very few sword players seem to be able to do anymore. Then again, not many players are as good (or "good", depending on whether or not you think Texas Ranger is a cheater... I'll say no more, as everyone should already be familiar with that controversy) at that strategy as Texas Ranger is, either. Thus, who wins is more a function of player skill in that case than anything else.
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Texas Ranger
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by Texas Ranger »

10/10 thread, would read again. I'd like to add a few things:

I could never see a 7TC start working vs a rush, even one as bad as Warrman's (his was quite horrible, let's not lie).

Whoever said they played me in liga on gameranger -> sorry but no you did not, I promise. :p

Changes have been made to this strat! I may update later but the biggest one is removal of Cav CR and replacing it with sword HP.

Since coming back, I haven't really played any 1v1s. Well, any difficult ones. But in all the games I've been in, I've yet to see anyone rush nearly as well as Krass/assys/lion used to be able to do against me, and this civ performed just fine against them. I'd be very surprised if the skill cap has been raised much since then, and from what I've seen so far it has not.

Omega now that tributes are removed surely you can rest easy on the glitching paranoia! People don't believe me but even with tributes screen I had no idea how to even glitch. So sad. With all those accusations I should've at least bothered to learn. :(

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Arntzen
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by Arntzen »

I will gladly play some 1v1's vs you. Not saying I'm expert or anything, but would be fun.
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by MacroMicroMonster »

All I'm saying is iggy even stopped lions sword rush on wing. Me an lion went to aoc the same time and he was even shot down by iggy. Think what you guys want but iggy was almost unrushable. I think he played in the EEC vs aoc mid sh game and rolled two of the EEC players rather easily. I didn't play in any of those games but maybe ice storm remembers. You also have to remember that they played 4v4 on large map. So the first three swords would get there and simple die to towers. Next three game a min later and died to his units. On a medium , he would die, but on large he owned them.

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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by herik »

Texas I hope you going to b playing more, now that taco is back we are getting 4v4, at our night times, as for this discussion, Iggy strats were quite amazing, shut me down quite a few times when he was playing, but I do remember quite a few games, wen I would 1v1 swords vs swords, me rush and for instance when kurt played he would exp, The only way for a rush to beat an exp pro is rush hero and mass army by 10-15f11 (round about figures, been a long time since i've done this method since all the players have left ), otherwise game is over.

Also some good advice from cliffy was this: Don't always rush, because your going to end up losing those swords without doing any damage(morale and base control). SAVE YOUR SWORDS FOR THE FUTURE.

Well anyway, I've found that fast hero with swords wins against exp.

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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by Arntzen »

MacroMicroMonster wrote:So the first three swords would get there and simple die to towers. Next three game a min later and died to his units.
You do realize your arguments are kinda silly when on one side you have this godlike monster of EE-AOC who's unstoppable and on the other side you have this brainless monkey who just runs his swords without micro at all and loose them to towers? Common Cobra.
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lightnessking.
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by lightnessking. »

Kazter wrote:
MacroMicroMonster wrote:So the first three swords would get there and simple die to towers. Next three game a min later and died to his units.
You do realize your arguments are kinda silly when on one side you have this godlike monster of EE-AOC who's unstoppable and on the other side you have this brainless monkey who just runs his swords without micro at all and loose them to towers? Common Cobra.

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Texas Ranger
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by Texas Ranger »

Also 4v4 large isn't the same is 1v1 small... I invite you to read the thread title.

Herik what is your usual 'night time'?

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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by Omega »

There were two "EEC vs AoC" mid sh games.

The first game took place on a medium map, with the AoC players having a solid team, and the EEC players also having a solid team. The EEC team won in about 10 f11.

The second game took place a few hours later, after much bitching about slut rush in the chat, and the AoC players still had a solid (albeit different by like 2 players) team. The EEC side retained only one player, myself, and I pretty much just grabbed random average skilled players from EEC and told them to rush hard to fill the ranks.

In the second game, it was Icestorm who won it for the AoC team, as the other side pocket from my wing location, with Crossbows. In the first 15 f11, my entire side had been displaced to Icestorm's base, and the opposing wing had also been displaced to Icestorm's base. I was of course, swords, and it was a large map. The other players on my team refused to quadruple Icestorm, even though at the time *everyone* was in his base. We eventually lost, after over an hour of playing. Oh, and my pocket dropped at like 30 f11, but he was pretty useless anyway. I never really managed to transition away from pumping out swords the entire game, mainly because sending swords/barbs against the other team was the only thing keeping my allies from dying the whole time... I was gambling that they'd stop sucking. I was wrong.

I'm pretty sure Enigma took part in the first game, not the second game. If he did take part in the second game, he certainly wasn't the one who won the second game, because that victory can pretty much be credited entirely to Icestorm and my team being too scrubby to quadruple him when they should have.
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Icestorm2
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by Icestorm2 »

Enigma has always been vulnerable to rushing, in a 1v1 situation any good rusher (using expansionism or not, CA or swords) will kill him every time (well, unless he goes knights against your swords). Enigma has never really tried to adapt his strategy to counter rushers, either. In team games he persevered against people who rushed him because they did not typically follow through with their initial attacks. They would assume he was out and redirect their aggression elsewhere while he recovered. This ability to quickly recover was his greatest strength.

The veneration of Warrman and eeralf was also tongue-in-cheek. As much as I like them it would be dishonest to describe them as anything above journeymen in their sett. They were good examples of players who simply did not keep up with the rest of the crowd.

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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by assys »

Just wanted to leave my two cents here although I have done it already in another thread concerning the same topic.

I can just confirm what Texas says about me, krass and actually the entire ec clan. We were rarely able to beat him.
Can't say something about Enigma since I have never played with that guy but im pretty sure that in aoc you can use various tactics that are not known nowadays anymore.

edit: We played our 1on1s on small maps for sure.

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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by eeralf_ »

i agree with icestorm

i am played always my same shit, and?, lol, i love it, and try find a way for better
hah ha, and it goes bader and bader cuz iam older and older, np all

and yes it gives 100 of startegies, but few are work realy, and enigma do a one of best
i killed him from 100 games 2 time maybe, but i need best map

maybe it was a little overdrived, and, he was real very good player, and more importend is, he wasn arogant and a real friend, i love him

Ralf

Edit:2vs2 Omega u remember a game u was with 01010101, and i had a noob on my team, and u ,win maybe, iam not real sure, but was closed. anyway i killed 01010101
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by Eisregen »

much text here. dont read all,but playing 4v4 with enigma and other middle players from aoc was best games ever.
i dont care about the rush skill or rush defende skill, eec style mid is fun too but its 80% the same meta and games end much faster.
Yes its not hard to rush enigma but its hard to kill him, he will rebuild very fast and come back and kill u!
I respect players with there own strats and not only follow and master standart rushes and texas, enigma + very much other aoc players playes do this.
I dont played much eec mid but i nearly always see standart civs not very creative, ok maybe its harder in eec, but thats the reason why i love aoc mid so much bc u can use so much diff. civs
btw i often watched eec player come in aoc games and total failed against expan 4v4 games
ofc in the beginning they rule most of the time but late game they lose bad vs expan mix civs with pop cap.
xdfsddsvfdsvvadf

assys
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Re: AoC Mid Sh 1v1/2v2 Civ

Post by assys »

Btw if tricky or any other former member of the symbols clan might read this:

Nevermind has been a member of symbols clan which allowed us all to read in your forums. :tongue:#
He was even very accepted which was quite funny

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