Poll on test patch

[10010 1111 10]

..but no thats not my personal opinions binary.

ehh huh?

[Omega]

Because I didnt realise in the first poll , but no thats not my personal opinions binary.

It is fact that there are negative sides , and they arent listed , or they are minimized , wont you agree ?

Did you read the three points listed?

"1) Scenarios can be fixed to allow diplomacy and tributes using triggers"

This doesn't list a positive side. It doesn't list a negative side. It doesn't minimize any negative point. It states a fact a lot of idiots are denying, which is that triggers can be used to allow tributes and diplomacy in scenarios.

"2) Citybuilder games can be converted into scenarios, and thus able to use diplomacy and trbutes"

This doesn't list a positive side. It may list a negative side, if you consider turning a CB into a scenario a negative (for some reason, all the people who consider it a negative seem to love Euro RP, but I digress). It doesn't minimize any negative point, either, in fact it fails to mention that the people complaining about this seem to think that having to press two fucking buttons is just far too difficult to be able to play CB just like they always have. Again, this point is a fact.

"3) Removing the tribute screen is the only way to stop resource glitching. There is no other way."

This isn't inherently positive or negative. All it does is state a fact which a bunch of idiots have repeatedly denied, just like all the other points do.

How exactly do three facts that aren't inherently positive or negative, where one of which can even be interpreted as a negative, demonstrate a clear bias for the patch?

Now, let's compare this to your three points!

"1) It will change Liga games is a drastic way"

Sound a bit over dramatic and anti-patch? Especially when we consider that oh, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 are virtually unchanged and basically all liga players accept that, or that the changes to 1 vs 1 aren't as drastic as you seem to be implying and have both positive and negative components even without considering that glitching isn't possible anymore? Clearly biased.

"2) It will take away a piece of the game/ Teamplay"

This is obvious to everyone. It's also obvious that the removal of this certain aspect of team play also means that more team play is required by actually planning with your allies and being proactive instead of retroactive in aiding your allies. There's no need to mention the obvious, although it's interesting how this point only mentions the anti-patch side of the obvious.

"3) Citybuilders can only be played on 1 map or you have to do more scenarios for it"

Stating the obvious and something that absolutely no one contests again? lol

[PinK Legend^]

but no thats not my personal opinions binary.

His name is Rob, he just thinks its cool to hide his name in binary so only the really cool kids can read it straight away.. not binary. but lol at calling him binary.
And also i think u guys over thing this all way to much, or maybe i just dont care meh.

& also, who the fuck plays citybuilder anymore.

[CusTomm]

Because I didnt realise in the first poll , but no thats not my personal opinions binary.

It is fact that there are negative sides , and they arent listed , or they are minimized , wont you agree ?

Did you read the three points listed?

"1) Scenarios can be fixed to allow diplomacy and tributes using triggers"

This doesn't list a positive side. It doesn't list a negative side. It doesn't minimize any negative point. It states a fact a lot of idiots are denying, which is that triggers can be used to allow tributes and diplomacy in scenarios.

"2) Citybuilder games can be converted into scenarios, and thus able to use diplomacy and trbutes"

This doesn't list a positive side. It may list a negative side, if you consider turning a CB into a scenario a negative (for some reason, all the people who consider it a negative seem to love Euro RP, but I digress). It doesn't minimize any negative point, either, in fact it fails to mention that the people complaining about this seem to think that having to press two fucking buttons is just far too difficult to be able to play CB just like they always have. Again, this point is a fact.

"3) Removing the tribute screen is the only way to stop resource glitching. There is no other way."

This isn't inherently positive or negative. All it does is state a fact which a bunch of idiots have repeatedly denied, just like all the other points do.

How exactly do three facts that aren't inherently positive or negative, where one of which can even be interpreted as a negative, demonstrate a clear bias for the patch?

Now, let's compare this to your three points!

Alright, thats a different point of view I would say. But you could just see it as an understate of the situation . E.g You could see it as you wanted to say that there is no real problem with citybuilders and you could just make it a scen... I guess that was an missunderstanding which probably occurs because of the how it is written down.

[PeLlE]

Not at all. Looks pretty clear to me and you seem to be the only one having problems.

[CusTomm]

Not at all. Looks pretty clear to me and you seem to be the only one having problems.

Wrong statement , many people missunderstood it I know this because we been talking about it. I am sure you didnt ask people about it

[Texas Ranger]

Is cheating such a huge issue that we have to resort to eliminating game features in order to be 100% sure it's gone? I can't speak for other setts, but this will have a big impact on mid games.

And it's nothing short of moronic to say this will increase strategy. Any boom strats will be eliminated, thanks to being able to double the other player and not have to worry about them EVER coming back.

This is not to mention that the development of any possible future setts involving tributes are eliminated.

So inconceivably stupid...getting rid of tributes will probably enough to keep me away from this game (not that I've been terribly active lately ).

[Elite]

Omega, many of your points are logical, and I appreciate once again the hard work you've done on this patch. However, I think it needs to be pointed out that the tribute system represents a huge element of team play, especially in certain settings (pre-space/nano above all). Tribute allows for the team's resources to be allocated in the most efficient way to meet shared objectives. Collaborating to meet common goals; isn't that the very definition of teamwork? Tributing encourages communication among teammates, and also punishes teams for using short sighted strategies which focus on a single player.
Previously, if a team focused much of its effort on knocking one of or two players out of the game, and failed to engage the entire opposing team, it was quite possible for the players who were untouched and now possibly stronger than the enemy team to facilitate their teammate's recovery and come back to win. Now, if someone gets hit hard early its quite possible they will be unable to recover at all. The argument that "If you lose a teammate early or lack the resources to immediately counter a wonder, your team is losing anyway" simply doesn't fly for me. I cannot count the number of pre-nano games where I've seen a wing get beat up by an enemy team which focuses on massing over booming. Probably the majority of these games have ended up being victories for my team, because my wing takes the hits and buys me time to boom, then I tribute him a few thousand food and he's right back in the game with a pocket three ages ahead of anyone else.
Likewise, in a later setting like modern TL, high gather rates and eco-oriented civs allow you to quickly bring a teammate back into the game with a little tribute, provided your team still controls some of the map. I can recall modern TL games where each team had a wing die on opposite sides of the map and they proceeded to basically trade places over the course of a 3-4 hour game - that kind of recovery is hard to pull off without tribute. And my personal opinion is that lengthy games like that tend to be the most interesting and worthwhile, especially these days when it can take hours to get a game going.
Tribute allows a team to more effectively utilize its resource pool, its value for teamplay is evident when you consider that it has been a part of almost every RTS ever created. The glitching problem, which I would argue was EXTREMELY limited even before this patch, is not sufficiently threatening to warrant removing such a vital element of teamplay.

[10010 1111 10]

Seriously guys, we all know ALL the arguments for and against. Do we really need to keep rehashing the same sentences over and over? Time for discussion is ended, now you vote.

[CusTomm]

Is cheating such a huge issue that we have to resort to eliminating game features in order to be 100% sure it's gone? I can't speak for other setts, but this will have a big impact on mid games.

And it's nothing short of moronic to say this will increase strategy. Any boom strats will be eliminated, thanks to being able to double the other player and not have to worry about them EVER coming back.

This is not to mention that the development of any possible future setts involving tributes are eliminated.

So inconceivably stupid...getting rid of tributes will probably enough to keep me away from this game (not that I've been terribly active lately ).

You are not the only one , I am with you ...

[10010 1111 10]

Meg, Any reason you chose not to max out on the SP unit limit to 40,850? Just curious.

[X warrior411]

When is the poll going to end? I'm sick of trying to stop spamming 'PATCH SUCKS' 'VANILLIA NOAW!!!111!' by using something called 'logic' and 'reasoning' (which never works )

Gotta love being a vigilante...

[Elite]

Excuse me sir, I don't believe I've ever seen you in an expert game. What credibility exactly do you have commenting on the value of this patch? And you basically label opponents of your position as idiots by your language. Vigilante? I'd say closer to just towing the party line.

When is the poll going to end? I'm sick of trying to stop spamming 'PATCH SUCKS' 'VANILLIA NOAW!!!111!' by using something called 'logic' and 'reasoning' (which never works )

Gotta love being a vigilante...

[X warrior411]

Excuse me sir, I don't believe I've ever seen you in an expert game. What credibility exactly do you have commenting on the value of this patch? And you basically label opponents of your position as idiots by your language. Vigilante? I'd say closer to just towing the party line.

When is the poll going to end? I'm sick of trying to stop spamming 'PATCH SUCKS' 'VANILLIA NOAW!!!111!' by using something called 'logic' and 'reasoning' (which never works )

Gotta love being a vigilante...

I have a right to share my opinion, and 85% of the patch-haters have infringed the rules at one point, therefore they're idiots because it's very easy to follow them, which they can't handle.

So stop the elitism, elite.

[ben55]

Excuse me sir, I don't believe I've ever seen you in an expert game. What credibility exactly do you have commenting on the value of this patch? And you basically label opponents of your position as idiots by your language. Vigilante? I'd say closer to just towing the party line.

When is the poll going to end? I'm sick of trying to stop spamming 'PATCH SUCKS' 'VANILLIA NOAW!!!111!' by using something called 'logic' and 'reasoning' (which never works )

Gotta love being a vigilante...

I have a right to share my opinion, and 85% of the patch-haters have infringed the rules at one point, therefore they're idiots because it's very easy to follow them, which they can't handle.

So stop the elitism, elite.

He is not being elitist you don't play every setting you don't know how it changes the game. He isn't putting it very nicely, but he is frankly just saying you don't know what you are talking about because you don't play very many settings or much at all. Omega could be Hitler incarnated, and I'm sure you wouldn't even notice because of the 8ball beside his name. He isn't being/acting elitist he is just saying you have no clue which is very right if you had a clue then yes he would be being elitist, but you don't.

85% of the patch haters are idiots who can't follow the rules? LOL. The only voice against the patch that has been muted or banned is DJ maybe custom too, but I don't think he has been banned/muted/kicked just called an idiot and a few topics locked.

I love all the people who go on how it will change x setting, and they don't even play it. It is hilarious seeing people like you, DJ, Moo etc commenting on how it will change or not change liga when I doubt you/them have ever played more than three ligas ever if you have ever played it. That is a perfect example of being ignorant. You aren't being a vigilante you are being an idiot, and someone told you, you were being one and you cried elitist which really makes you look even more ignorant for the people who can read between the lines.

Yes you have an opinion and a vote good for you, but I'm quite confident most would agree that you and your peers have no clue what you are talking about, and just want brownie points with your internet overlords.

end rant

I wouldn't be too concerned of loosing the tribute screen though. I seriously doubt this thing passes if they use a super majority. Even a regular majority would be highly unlikely. In an A or B poll and B being keep tribute screen. I'm sure it would win with about 60%+ of the votes.