Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by 10010 1111 10 »

ehh you dl the patch and double click to install. Then when you're done you double click the patch again to uninstall. Not exactly rocket science really.
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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by uIwehFx »

But what for the test if we had a vote ? The test only is not going to show anything , you have to set up another vote so that you can see the test result ...

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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by Omega »

For those of you questioning about why have a poll *before* the test period, the answer is fairly simple...

1) I had said I wasn't going to bother doing anything regarding the patch unless a significant amount of the entire community wanted it. This includes tests. If certain members of the community were smart enough to understand that "tests" are in fact "tests", and not the end of the world as they know it, and were also capable of realizing that the best order in which to form accurate opinions is to consider the issue and then make an opinion instead of simply picking an opinion and sticking with it no matter what, I would have just stuck it in there for a day, maybe two, and asked for feedback/opinions.

2) Depending on the wishes of the community, there may not even be a test period. Additionally, what gets tested could also be different (i.e. no tribute screen, versus no ability to send tributes which would still allow seeing civilization names et cetera from the tribute screen, and still allow buildings to be glitched). In the long run, the 3.5 minutes on average everyone is spending on this poll is time well spent. If the community is overwhelmingly against such a test, it won't happen. If they're for a certain test, that test will happen.

Wouldn't you all agree that 3.5 minutes is far superior to running two different tests (one with no tribute screen, and one with the ability to tribute disabled), and then running a poll on it? I mean, it's certainly less hassle from my end, and I think the same is true from the end of the players since you don't have to deal with two test periods, possibly of things that virtually no one in the community wants.
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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by Ghost »

Ok so I'm going to cover a number of different points considering the removal of the tribute screen

1. I've tried it against players of many different skill levels on the Chinese server. All the players there use the patch. I really don't mind it at all. There was one time that I wanted to tribute an ally but then after having the game play out I discovered that had I been able to do it, it would have been a mistake. I think the benefits of having no glitching and trainer use far outweighs tributing.

2. You guys have not tried it. Change can be a good thing, and to simply shoot down the proposition of a test is being a little stubborn and most definitely naive. We may not even do the test for an entire week should we do it. You have no grounds to say that a test is pointless and will show nothing. We can't predict the outcome for the entire community without a test, and neither can you.

3. I don't know why you say that Pre players will completely reject the idea. I've had several experienced and expert players say that they WANT the screen removed or would try it because they are fed up with cheating. I'd also agree with Zeke in saying that tribute spamming in Pre is kinda stupid because it can decide a game too easily.

4. OMG I CAN'T GET MY 80 IRON/GOLD AT THE START ANY MORE IN SH GAMES????? Seriously, you're bitching about 80 iron/gold. Get over yourselves.

5. WTF??? NO CIV NAMES??? Use a dog. Hell, we could even throw in a complementary Scout Cat with 25 speed just so you can run it to their Capitol at the start and see the civ name. But come on, just pick a civilization on your own. Make up your own mind, or discuss strategy with your teammates before hand.

6. I think that no tributes puts just as much emphasis on teamwork as having tributes. Tributes in team games too often end up with the rest of the team carrying another person. Without tributes, it requires that you put effort into keeping your teammates alive rather than just throwing some resources at them and telling them to have fun.

7. Why would you EVER want to keep the current measures? Going back to vanilla and keeping the current patch allows people to do the same shit, so why even bother with a patch when it doesn't prevent anything? IMO: Either vanilla (with a reasonable argument) or no tribute screen. If you want something in-between, you're just delusional.

8. Looking at the past patches, we've seen that people are willing to give up some commodities in order to move towards a cheat-free game. This is the last step. It's time to pick a side. Either you want cheating or you don't.

9. If you don't want people questioning Juan's/XtC's/CheatingFuck's (or anyone's) legitimacy, then we could simply remove his ability to do it, and we won't have to worry about him again!

10. It's incredibly easy to distribute patches now, so it won't be nearly as hectic as in the past. And with the next lobby update (very soon), you can remove all Patches/Mods for EE, resetting your game version to the official Sierra version, with one click. I've literally made it so that it only requires a few clicks in the Patcher program to fix up any game.

11. We aren't here to force gameplay changes down your throat. We are doing these polls for a reason. Keep in mind that we play EE too. What we do is present ideas to the community based a) what we think might be best AND b) the reasonable concerns and/or desires of the community. We know that the Admins and Mods don't make up the community, but you also have to recognize that YOU ALONE do not either.

From here, this is what I think we should do:

1. I program a simple polling system for the lobby so we don't have problems with people voting over and over or people not voting at all.
2. Based on the results of this poll, do another one with the yes or no question: Are you willing to try out the No Tribute Screen patch for at least a few days?
3. If "Yes" prevails, test the patch and on the beginning of the third day start another poll: Choose one: a) Make No Tribute Screen Patch permanent, b) Keep testing for the remainder of the week and vote again, c) Return to vanilla
4. After a 2 days of voting, do whatever has the majority (repeat #3, #4 if answer b wins)
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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by ben55 »

I agree with you Ghost 100%, but good luck convincing pre players they are about as tough headed as aoc players, and you saw how well the patches were accepted there. I would rather just avoid a mess, but that is just me. Even though I would love to have no tribute screen that would make my year hell I would trade no tribute screen for 1 point fanata, but I also would like to keep our small community in peace not pieces
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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by Sexacutioner »

the only complaint i got from pre players on eec was the fact the sami dissabled the ability to upgrade to longswords but they liked all the other stuff

eec the tribute screen dont matter hardly at all due to the maps played so theres mass food and pockets give you their patches with 12-1500 food still left in them so everyone makes copper on their own fairly easy

aoc everything is plains and maps can really fuck a player over quite a bit and without receiving tribute then that players is best left to just die and his pocket take his metals, and the only the guy with no way to make copper has is to just keep massing sampsons like a mofo but i doubt any of them would do that lol

liga i never really used the tribute screen because how cheap it is to advance and you rarely start in pre or stone

single epoc games dont think ive ever used tribute either

one good thing about the no tribute thing, besides the cheating thing, is you wont have the retards spamming for food all the damn time lol

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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by uIwehFx »

Ghost wrote:Ok so I'm going to cover a number of different points considering the removal of the tribute screen

1. I've tried it against players of many different skill levels on the Chinese server. All the players there use the patch. I really don't mind it at all. There was one time that I wanted to tribute an ally but then after having the game play out I discovered that had I been able to do it, it would have been a mistake. I think the benefits of having no glitching and trainer use far outweighs tributing.

2. You guys have not tried it. Change can be a good thing, and to simply shoot down the proposition of a test is being a little stubborn and most definitely naive. We may not even do the test for an entire week should we do it. You have no grounds to say that a test is pointless and will show nothing. We can't predict the outcome for the entire community without a test, and neither can you.

3. I don't know why you say that Pre players will completely reject the idea. I've had several experienced and expert players say that they WANT the screen removed or would try it because they are fed up with cheating. I'd also agree with Zeke in saying that tribute spamming in Pre is kinda stupid because it can decide a game too easily.

4. OMG I CAN'T GET MY 80 IRON/GOLD AT THE START ANY MORE IN SH GAMES????? Seriously, you're bitching about 80 iron/gold. Get over yourselves.

5. WTF??? NO CIV NAMES??? Use a dog. Hell, we could even throw in a complementary Scout Cat with 25 speed just so you can run it to their Capitol at the start and see the civ name. But come on, just pick a civilization on your own. Make up your own mind, or discuss strategy with your teammates before hand.

6. I think that no tributes puts just as much emphasis on teamwork as having tributes. Tributes in team games too often end up with the rest of the team carrying another person. Without tributes, it requires that you put effort into keeping your teammates alive rather than just throwing some resources at them and telling them to have fun.

7. Why would you EVER want to keep the current measures? Going back to vanilla and keeping the current patch allows people to do the same shit, so why even bother with a patch when it doesn't prevent anything? IMO: Either vanilla (with a reasonable argument) or no tribute screen. If you want something in-between, you're just delusional.

8. Looking at the past patches, we've seen that people are willing to give up some commodities in order to move towards a cheat-free game. This is the last step. It's time to pick a side. Either you want cheating or you don't.

9. If you don't want people questioning Juan's/XtC's/CheatingFuck's (or anyone's) legitimacy, then we could simply remove his ability to do it, and we won't have to worry about him again!

10. It's incredibly easy to distribute patches now, so it won't be nearly as hectic as in the past. And with the next lobby update (very soon), you can remove all Patches/Mods for EE, resetting your game version to the official Sierra version, with one click. I've literally made it so that it only requires a few clicks in the Patcher program to fix up any game.

11. We aren't here to force gameplay changes down your throat. We are doing these polls for a reason. Keep in mind that we play EE too. What we do is present ideas to the community based a) what we think might be best AND b) the reasonable concerns and/or desires of the community. We know that the Admins and Mods don't make up the community, but you also have to recognize that YOU ALONE do not either.

From here, this is what I think we should do:

1. I program a simple polling system for the lobby so we don't have problems with people voting over and over or people not voting at all.
2. Based on the results of this poll, do another one with the yes or no question: Are you willing to try out the No Tribute Screen patch for at least a few days?
3. If "Yes" prevails, test the patch and on the beginning of the third day start another poll: Choose one: a) Make No Tribute Screen Patch permanent, b) Keep testing for the remainder of the week and vote again, c) Return to vanilla
4. After a 2 days of voting, do whatever has the majority (repeat #3, #4 if answer b wins)
OKAY this totaly changed my mind. I dont think many people knew about number ''5.'', by removing Tribute screen we thought about the tribute section , but still be able to open the window for civ names and player names.
I am getting completly bias now , how retarded is that...

1. I wanna see who i am playing with
2. I wanna see civ names so i can choose civ for counter unit quickly
3. I want to tribute stuff , and especially the 80 iron / gold at mid start ( small things make the game)

4. I wanna Tribute for wonders to my allys
5. I wanna Tribute my ally so he can rebuild faster.
6. I maybe wanna check out smurfs via civ names

And all the things you say ghost , are just personal stuff and can not be related to good arguments for the generall. In this case everyone can just say his opinion for hisself. I dont exactly know the vote results atm, but i guess the Tribute screen was not wanted for the first , right ? ;)

But the Lobby poll would be a good idea

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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by Omega »

uIwehFx wrote:OKAY this totaly changed my mind.
How so? From your post, your position seems to remain entirely unchanged.
uIwehFx wrote:I dont think many people knew about number ''5.'', by removing Tribute screen we thought about the tribute section , but still be able to open the window for civ names and player names.
How is that even possible? Anyone who plays Empire Earth and possesses enough of a brain to click a link and take the survey has the knowledge of what is contained on the tribute screen and the incredible amount of brain power it takes to realize that if you remove something entirely, it gets removed entirely. Did these consequences not occur to you at all until Ghost's post?

If I had thought people wouldn't realize the blatantly obvious consequences, I would have explicitly stated them in the poll. I suppose if what you're saying is to really be believed here, I suppose I should have also mentioned that removing tributes removes the ability to tribute, and that removing the tribute screen removes the ability to tribute.
uIwehFx wrote:I am getting completly bias now , how retarded is that...
To be honest, you've seemed like you're completely biased before now, so I still don't see what has changed. I do however agree that being so biased is retarded, though.
uIwehFx wrote:1. I wanna see who i am playing with
2. I wanna see civ names so i can choose civ for counter unit quickly
3. I want to tribute stuff , and especially the 80 iron / gold at mid start ( small things make the game)

4. I wanna Tribute for wonders to my allys
5. I wanna Tribute my ally so he can rebuild faster.
6. I maybe wanna check out smurfs via civ names
1. You can see who you're playing with in game staging. It's retardedly easy to do this, and it's also retardedly easy to know exactly where everyone will start relative to you, along with their color, too.

2. You apparently didn't even realize that removing the tribute screen would remove the tribute screen until Ghost pointed it out. I'm having difficulty believing you here. I'm tempted to write a lot more on this point, but I'll just leave it at the utter implausibility it's even a semi-serious point.

3. Oh, because 80 iron that goes exclusively to upgrades on Swords in Middle (as an example) is totally going to make the game since it's so small. Seriously, so wings get level 4 and level 6 on swords very slightly slower. It makes almost zero difference in the game, because they're both effected equally since the relative powers of the units are the same. Seriously, I don't even see how you can seriously try to argue that the 80 resource tribute is even remotely significant, especially when without it both sides get effected equally and considering in a vast majority of games it doesn't even happen due to being so minor.

4. Can't they mine their own resources? Seriously, tribute is a large waste of resources because you "loose" resources in the tribute. If you need to tribute your allies so they can afford wonders, they need to suck less or you need to keep their economy from getting utterly destroyed.

5. Why is your ally rebuilding? Oh that's right, you let them get pwned. In almost all cases, when someone "needs" to rebuild it's due to poor play on the part of themselves, their team, or both. It's very rarely due to excellent play from the other team, which is, IMHO sad. Maybe if tributes are gone, that will change.

6. Because you certainly cannot, under any circumstances, click on their units or buildings, can you? Oh wait... Besides, anyone seriously smurfing will take the 2 minutes required to simply rename their smurf civilizations and stick them in a swappable civilization folder.
uIwehFx wrote:And all the things you say ghost , are just personal stuff and can not be related to good arguments for the generall.
And "I wanna" along with "I maybe wanna" are better? SERIOUSLY?
uIwehFx wrote:In this case everyone can just say his opinion for hisself. I dont exactly know the vote results atm, but i guess the Tribute screen was not wanted for the first , right ? ;)
I will not speculate on the vote results, nor will ANYONE who has access to them. They'll be made public when the poll is over. Period, end of story. Read whatever you want into this, I don't really care.

As for as the first vote, that was cast by me. I personally voted to remove the tribute screen. Good guess there! Then again, it seems like from your post you thought Ghost was the first person to vote... so maybe not so good.
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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by uIwehFx »

aaahhhh... 8)

It is funny, but do you guys really wanna tell me that removing the screen is SO UNBELIEVABLE GOOD FOR THE GAME. Oh my god, we catch the cheaters and glitcher over and over again, I am sure 90% of all games are without cheaters or glitchers, which is amazing and just enough.

So i mean if the whole tribute window is just so insignificant , why is it acutally there, and you know , WHY is it used ? Oh no just realised, using the tribute was stupid, didnt ever help me, in the games. Oh and you know, why did i look at the civ names of the players every liga, eeehm just for fun , useless. I always did anti-tanks when my opposite use Spain-civ

Oh yes Omega sure, Tribute screen is the most useless thing ee ever had, you know.

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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by PeLlE »

uIwehFx wrote:aaahhhh... 8)

It is funny, but do you guys really wanna tell me that removing the screen is SO UNBELIEVABLE GOOD FOR THE GAME. Oh my god, we catch the cheaters and glitcher over and over again, I am sure 90% of all games are without cheaters or glitchers, which is amazing and just enough.

So i mean if the whole tribute window is just so insignificant , why is it acutally there, and you know , WHY is it used ? Oh no just realised, using the tribute was stupid, didnt ever help me, in the games. Oh and you know, why did i look at the civ names of the players every liga, eeehm just for fun , useless. I always did anti-tanks when my opposite use Spain-civ

Oh yes Omega sure, Tribute screen is the most useless thing ee ever had, you know.
blah blah blah
You never tried living without trib screen I never tried but I bet omega did and ghost obviously did. Let's just try it before flame wartime begins ok?
Or let's just wait for the poll results instead of arguing?
We all know your point of view by now I guess so let's see what the
community is thinking. And don't start telling us ur oppinion = communitys oppinion
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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by h0llygh0st »

Ghost I would appreciate it if you keep your BS's opinion out of the poll if you make it. Calling the way we have it now 'Vanilla' Really shows us that it is infact your views and opinions on things that your trying to feed us. That pisses me off even more than the deletion of the tribute screen.

With the removal of the screen we can stop glitching, jippi? We can already catch and punish the cheaters so why continue with extra measures? People will still be able to cheat in different ways...
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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by 10010 1111 10 »

All I wanna say is;
uIwehFx wrote: 1. I wanna...
2. I wanna...
3. I want...

4. I wanna...
5. I wanna...
6. I maybe wanna...
And his very next sentence;
uIwehFx wrote: And all the things you say ghost , are just personal stuff and can not be related to good arguments for the generall. In this case everyone can just say his opinion for hisself.
LOL @ hypocrisy. :roll:
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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by uIwehFx »

EXACTLY

''IN THIS CASE EVERYONE CAN JUST SAY HIS OWN OPINION''
But you guys just try to convince everyone for the new patch, like holly said , try to feed us with your opinion. Which is really anoying. The whole vote is set up in this way.

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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by Wizo »

I think deleting the tribute screen is not such a good idea, because it's just a part of the EE-Gameplay. Of course u say it doesn't really hurt and this might be true. But for what price? I mean there are so many ee players which are playing that game for years now and there were always cheaters. The number of cheaters has already decreased and if u really think ur opponent is cheating, just check the stats. Everyone played this game with the knowledge that it is possible that ur opponent was cheating. So why do we need a change now after all of these years? That's the first point. The second thing, much more dramatically in my opinion,is that u aren't able to see ur opponent's civs anymore. Especially at Liga this is just a bad idea. I rather loose once a while a game because my opponent has cheated (this won't happen often since there aren't many cheaters out there anymore I think),as not being able to see his civ. In 1v1's many ppl try to counter their opponent by checking civs and picking a good counter then. This is a part of the game. I don't see the point of deleting the tribute screen just to decrease the number of cheaters. Which is already low as we all know.
Well this are just my two cents.
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Re: Poll on Anti-cheating measures (Make sure you vote!)

Post by ben55 »

How are Ghost's opinions bullshit? He has tried both and gave his insight if not he has the most credible opinion no one else has seriously tried both, at least people who have posted in this thread.

How will they be able to cheat in different ways? Oh no wall glitching takes one save and a load in the scen editor and they are banned not very difficult to catch. There is almost no way to catch someone glitching after 30f11 unless they are very very stupid. This no tribute screen eliminates all doubt on eco glitching. People can use hex civs, wall glitches, trainers, but really those take almost no time to prove.

Almost EVERY competitive RTS game in ladder play has no tributes you know why? Because it dumbs down the game it takes away the individual skill or the meshing into team skill put me with the best WC3 player and have him tribute me you know what I bet I could be semi competitive because my no skilled ass is getting carried. If anything no tribute screen will enhance teamwork, and actually make you give a fuck about your allies. I do agree with sexa on plains pre2space, but maybe you guys should go to conti, or if you really fucking hate water learn to manage your hunt better I have gone to copper with 2 forage 2 hippo maps before just fine is it the most optimal no but it is do-able if you have a brain and are not mindlessly spending your resources and killing both your hippos before 10f11.

80 iron for 80 gold if people are actually going to complain about that this community is more ignorant than I feared. (If you don't understand why this has no impact at all don't post here please, and also don't vote.)

As for not seeing civs dogs are scouts, scouts scout stuff hmm maybe we could try and scout them? You click on the unit it says XXXXXX civ name, or if you are illiterate lets take LIGA age copper for example if you dont see a barracks before 6f11 one of two things are happening 1) he is really bad 2) he is going bronze for war ele. Lets look @ LIGA age indy he starts stable okay is he Assys or Austria lets go take our dog by his citizen I know such a hard task but bare with me on this lets look at his citizens is citizen range upgraded? If so he is assyrian if not he is austrian. If he goes barracks go look at his citizens again if he has speed he is spain if he has no speed he is austrian holy shit that was so hard I know it might take a couple games to practice, but I believe you can do it!

Tribute so they can rebuild faster ahh yes maybe if you can't just spam him 2000 food and wood later if he dies maybe you will be more inclined to help him not die.

Yes lets tribute spam x so he can repair his coli that he decided to not defend very well, or so he can make another because it got bombed once again due to his poor defenses, or his allies generally not caring what goes on around him because hey shit goes wrong we can just tribute spam someone for another one, and have it back up in 2minutes.
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