The God debate

[Arntzen]

Since this topic kinda was mention in another thread, and it's quite an interesting topic I wanted to get it started for full on here with it's own thread.

Are you religious? Why? Why not?
Does god exist? Why? Why not?

I'm not gonna start out saying a whole lot but I'll leave you with this:

If we’re all God’s children, what’s so special about Jesus?

[eeralf_]

kaz u know it i cant say here nothing, lol

God, hahahaha allmigty or so (pls dont watch on my english , its hard for me ), when god realy exist why he give me not better english, lol, and why some child die when only 1 years?????????, hhmm iam sure they havnt any remember on a god, and why first 1500 ac the ppes goes god?, lol, all so paradox,

god cant exist cuz it/he cant build a perfect civ
sry
Ralf and Proooooooooooooooooooooost!, iam very drunk this night, but fun games /Mid

[extreme1337]

lets see. Religion is the cause of the longest running war in human history. The war for Jerusalem. Christians vs Muslims.

(catholic church)
It's the cause for witch hunting. Probably biggest suppression of free thinking women in human history.

A money greedy organization that used it's power to force people to buy indulgence letters, sucking money from people.

It's a contributing factor to Aids.

Everything about the bible is really wrong too. What it's really about is control of people. It's literally teaching you not to think for yourself, but do what you're told regardless of what it is. If god says kill your brother, do so and you'll be praised for following his command. This is obviously great for the people on top, who can use this message to control people and so they have for hundreds of years. Thankfully the information age has arrived, and people can see through this crap and make a mind of their own. Well most can. And especially those who have freed themselves from the bonds of religion.

Regrettably the 3rd world haven't joined the information age to the same extend, and control of people is still very high there. Religion such as islam is used in a very wrong way there liked it "used" to in europe (like christianity was used back in the day, not islam). The catholic church is still using it's power in an attempt to stop the use of condoms in Africa, since it's killing potential life; thereby contributing to the spread of Aids.

You enlighten people with the bullshit in religion, and the world might be a better place. You don't need religion to teach you proper morale.

Lets take Buddhism too just for a short note. Yeah very peaceful religion it must be so good. It's infact a religion that celebrates "not actually living". Im saying this cause it's main message is u shouldn't love, u shouldn't hate, u shouldn't have fun, you basically shouldn't do anything other than live like a machine.

All religions are crap. They're also not true. They're made up due to the natural instinct in humans of making up a master leader that controls everything. We don't like the thought of life not having a purpose, that life should end, that nobody really controls everything. We don't like cirtain things that we don't understand. How was the earth made? How was mankind made? Pretty much every civilization has come up with some sort of god, or more gods. And none of them the same god with same stories. Wonder why?

Oh btw a few videos to expand your mind

The funny one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p5jnqEyUs4

The more serious one:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4CDEC9D004B0F325

[herik]

I knew this would happen -_-, this is going to turn into a very long discussion.
First of all, when you read the links I have given to you, read with a broken heart and contrite spirit, so that you may feel the holy spirit showing you what is correct. What the spirit feels like for different people-
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... 8?lang=eng

AND

http://lds.about.com/od/basicsgospelpri ... t_feel.htm

Just so everyone knows what these words mean:
Covenant = A promise between MAN and GOD, God (Father in Heaven) does not break his promise, and will not break it as long as you keep your promise.
But if it says promise and not covenant that means promise between MAN and MAN.
God = is often referenced as Jesus is the God of this world, but acts under the direction of Heavenly father (sometimes referenced God), an example of this is when Jesus is on the cross and says:
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
immortal life- living forever
eternal life- living forever with God

As you'll read in what we believe in, We do not believe in the trinity, we believe that God the eternal father, his Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three separate beings.

As for omega, read this, the whole page, doesn't take too long
http://www.ldsmag.com/article/1/11440
I see that I was wrong in what I had said, the only change was, that the higher commandments were taken out, and they were only given the physical commandments. Read that link and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

The link you gave me omega, if you actually read the scripture verses that were there, they were talking about Moses making a covenant with GOD. Remember God made more laws then just 10 to follow, the 10 commandments are just the commandments that most people know about in the Bible.

As for the Bible selected I said the King James version- "Holy Bible":
http://mormon.org/faq/purpose-of-bible
Some of the comments in this are quite interesting.

This is what we believe in:
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.8?lang=eng

As for indica, we have all been given free agency to choose what to do, unfortunately we just don't get to choose the consequence.
About the church controlling me, I chose to follow the commandments, because I know from keeping them, I will return to live with God again. The church doesn't control us at all, they are Gods' commandments and no-one else's, as I said we have free agency on this earth and decide to follow those commandments or not.

kaz u know it i cant say here nothing, lol

God, hahahaha allmigty or so (pls dont watch on my english , its hard for me ), when god realy exist why he give me not better english, lol, and why some child die when only 1 years?????????, hhmm iam sure they havnt any remember on a god, and why first 1500 ac the ppes goes god?, lol, all so paradox,

god cant exist cuz it/he cant build a perfect civ
sry
Ralf and Proooooooooooooooooooooost!, iam very drunk this night, but fun games /Mid

I'm just going to reply to the stuff I can understand, We actually were all able to speak the same language, read this-
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/01/the- ... l?lang=eng
It is very long, but will explain Noah and the flood story, and why we speak different languages.

We believe at the age of 8 you become accountable for your sins, the age where you know what you're doing right and wrong, all children before age of 8 are perfect and are not accountable. link
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... n?lang=eng

Edit: I just found this tonight, couldn't find it this morning, but since no1 checked this yet, il add it now
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... ody+doctor
I'll share a quick story about this to, although this girl died at the age of 8, this kid was my best friend and we were around 8-10 years old, anyway he had a little sister at the age of 3, they lived in a house that was 20-30 meters away from a creek (9 meters deep), some reason was called a creek lol idk why. anyway, she knew never to go down there without her mum or dad, but one morning she woke up very early , walked down to the creek and drowned at the age of 3. Her dad found her floating face down. The reason I tell you this story, is that the family is still very strong in the church, and knows they will see there baby girl again, there are many other families that I know that have had a similar experience where they lost 2-3 kids in a car accident (they were older then 8 though.) Once again though, these families are very strong in the church and know they'll see there children again.

I know someone's going to bring out that what if people that don't know the commandments of god have killed/sinned, will they be punished? Well every1 has the light of christ, http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?l ... 82620aRCRD
-press additional link
Just like Cain killed Abel in the beginning of man. (Cain/Abel ,Adam/Eve's sons). He knew what he did was wrong.
https://www.lds.org/liahona/1984/07/cai ... l?lang=eng

If you want in depth of the plan of salvation go here, this will explain why we are on earth: http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?l ... 82620aRCRD
Press additional information link.

This link explains heaven and hell:
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?l ... 82620aRCRD
Once again press additional info link.

You can say God let us die, but, we are here to gain bodies and to return to him again, we will live again and forever. The people that make it to the celestial kingdom Will become Gods them selves. The world was perfect when it was made.

This is my own thought here.> I'll use Australia for example. Australia had all the resources, natural animals that did not ruin the habitat such as rabbits that were bought over from England, Australia provided for the Aboriginals and to be honest its only from the human advancement that the Earth is dying. Coal/ petrol etc. The techno age has had its pros and cons, I'm not saying it wasn't needed but in my opinion when the natives of the country had the land, it was a cycle, animals were killed for food, not for fun, trees got back burned to grow again (something like that, haven't done history for a while ), but the world was simple and it wasn't getting destroyed, but that's my opinion and I'm sure some things from this paragraph are wrong, but the Earth (not the people) then was more perfect than it is now.

If you want to go deep into countering the Bible I suggest posting on this guys youtube, He knows the Bible inside out, his been a baptist all his life, But if you got any questions of the bibles teaching im sure he can explain it very clearly, His actually a mate of mine now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApDDXCebxRU

[Arntzen]

This is my own thought here.> I'll use Australia for example. Australia had all the resources, natural animals that did not ruin the habitat such as rabbits that were bought over from England, Australia provided for the Aboriginals and to be honest its only from the human advancement that the Earth is dying. Coal/ petrol etc. The techno age has had its pros and cons, I'm not saying it wasn't needed but in my opinion when the natives of the country had the land, it was a cycle, animals were killed for food, not for fun, trees got back burned to grow again (something like that, haven't done history for a while ), but the world was simple and it wasn't getting destroyed, but that's my opinion and I'm sure some things from this paragraph are wrong, but the Earth (not the people) then was more perfect than it is now.

I see this as irrelevant to this discussion. You got any pro religious point hidden in here somewhere?

[herik]

This is my own thought here.> I'll use Australia for example. Australia had all the resources, natural animals that did not ruin the habitat such as rabbits that were bought over from England, Australia provided for the Aboriginals and to be honest its only from the human advancement that the Earth is dying. Coal/ petrol etc. The techno age has had its pros and cons, I'm not saying it wasn't needed but in my opinion when the natives of the country had the land, it was a cycle, animals were killed for food, not for fun, trees got back burned to grow again (something like that, haven't done history for a while ), but the world was simple and it wasn't getting destroyed, but that's my opinion and I'm sure some things from this paragraph are wrong, but the Earth (not the people) then was more perfect than it is now.

I see this as irrelevant to this discussion. You got any pro religious point hidden in here somewhere?

My thoughts on why today's people complain on why the world/earth is not perfect any more, people through there free agency have made the outcome this way.
edit: Explaining to ee-ralf

[herik]

oooooo I see I forgot to reply to omegas coveting bit, Coveting means to lust/want/ etc.
I'll give you a link that will explain it a lot better then me
http://www.lds.org/ensign/1994/12/thou- ... t?lang=eng

[Arntzen]

Maybe you should go on explaining why you're religious and why you think God exists.

[Lavanger]

laugh at the belivers, bibleboy

the natives were slaughtered and were taken of all there land, they english didnt help them at all loooool, if gods so true and nice why does he need people to follow is worthship, can't he just be nice back and be the bigger man to the other religions?

he just wants to be worshippt (speaking he as if he is real)

why can't he cure anything? , he made us , so reallistically hes programmed us to adapt and expand using the resoucres and thereby hurting the planet? dumb as anything, if he so good why doesnt he just come on back down and prove thats hes real isntead of people killing over it? and put the other religions to false, seems very unheroic like

[ben55]

why worry/think about the afterlife.. life its self is hard enough to experience in one go around. live your life, have fun, positively impact others life and i'm sure if there is a god he will respect that, if not i don't want nothing to do with that god. if i turn into worm food owell, i will be dead and unaware.

[herik]

Maybe you should go on explaining why you're religious and why you think God exists.

Well that's simple I'm relgious because I believe in God the eternal father, his son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost, and I believe that The church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints is the true church.

As for why God is exists, I believe this has a lot more to do with your spiritual side then your physical, through prayer you will be answered, it just may not be in ways you expected, as you saw in my first part of the last long post I did, I spoke about how to read and gave you those links, For instance there is a famous book of Mormon scripture at the end of the book, which reads:
Moroni 10:4-5
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
This scripture apply to the end of the Book of Mormon, but the other things I have linked for you, i urge you to pray about them to.

How to pray, how do you know if you've been answered? =
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?l ... 82620aRCRD

Another prayer one:

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... de+perfect

This is a basic spiritual explanation, I can tell you my prayers are always answered, when I pray properly.

As for the physical side, This is what we believe in how our bodies were made etc, it's very interesting I spent about 30 min trying to find this particular talk, I remembered it of when i first heard it, quite good.:
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... y=big+bang



If you wana know these questions (Where did we come from? Why are we here? Where do we go after this life?) read this:
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... ody+doctor

laugh at the belivers, bibleboy

the natives were slaughtered and were taken of all there land, they english didnt help them at all loooool, if gods so true and nice why does he need people to follow is worthship, can't he just be nice back and be the bigger man to the other religions?

he just wants to be worshippt (speaking he as if he is real)

why can't he cure anything? , he made us , so reallistically hes programmed us to adapt and expand using the resoucres and thereby hurting the planet? dumb as anything, if he so good why doesnt he just come on back down and prove thats hes real isntead of people killing over it? and put the other religions to false, seems very unheroic like

We are his children, if you read some of the links i gave you, you would understand why we are on the earth, death is like a tick in the sky. After this life we are given immortality or eternal life, depending on how you are judged.
I'll post it here again just for you
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?l ... 82620aRCRD

Um you obviously never attended scripture when you were in primary school, Jesus Chrirst healed many people, and had actually risen Lazarus from the dead.
As for today's miracles there are many, maybe not as profound but still pretty cool, I'm friends with a family who had a son that was suppose to die when he was born, he then got cancer at a very young age, his been diagnosed to die about 6-7 times now, but every time he has, his received a priesthood blessing and about 2 years ago we celebrated his 20th birthday. There are many more stories like this I can share, I'm sure you could put it to chance, but we all believe it was through faith. (There are some that have had priesthood blessings and have died, not for doing wrong, but it was just there time to leave.)
Here is a talk on miracles:
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2001/06/miracles?lang=eng

why worry/think about the afterlife.. life its self is hard enough to experience in one go around. live your life, have fun, positively impact others life and i'm sure if there is a god he will respect that, if not i don't want nothing to do with that god. if i turn into worm food owell, i will be dead and unaware.

Well zeke why not try? After judgement day that it, its immortal and eternal life.(depending where you go)->
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?l ... 82620aRCRD
Press additional information link.
As for respect, I respect your opinion, I'm just going to answer this in simple form because there's already so much I've posted. How many people say Jesus or Gods name in vain? Too many.
And you're not going to be turning into any animal zeke...

[Lavanger]

i think jesus christ sent that cricket ball that hit you in the head and said wake the fuck up, non of this is true, all myths, jesus christ didnt heal my uncle of no cancer and MITT romney aint payin no tax

[Lavanger]

EDITED by mistake by herik :/

[herik]

Oh my, LOL :/ lavanger i accidently edited instead of quoted the insult haha, woops. I'll have to rewrite at my own.

[herik]

Spirit children not, bodied children, we were spirits in heaven, we were sent to earth to gain bodies, seriously read the links before saying that. And I'm sorry for your loss lavanger, but, every1 has a time when they go, its natures way, you'll see him in heaven.

As for this "mystical stuff" umm how many people have stated them rising up and looking upon there body then coming back alive from resuscitation, a decent number.