ROME'S PHARAOH- Solution.

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Mike Rodent
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ROME'S PHARAOH- Solution.

Post by Mike Rodent »

Dug my disc out and started playing for the first time in years.

Got through all the campaigns, but was stuck on this one on hard, for weeks. It seemed unwinnable.

I looked all over the web for advice, but could find no solution.

Then I decided to study it properly and the solution just presented itself. I can beat it anytime now.

If anyone is totally infuriated with it, I can explain. It is elementary.

Mike :D

stuckatromespharaoh
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Re: ROME'S PHARAOH- Solution.

Post by stuckatromespharaoh »

Hi can you help me? i cannot complete that level.the most i could do is destroy ptolemy's southeast base.thanks in advance

generaltrebuchet
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Re: ROME'S PHARAOH- Solution.

Post by generaltrebuchet »

Please do tell. I'm interested in any tips anyone may have that pertains to this level.

I've spent a considerable amount of time trying various strategies, but none of them seem to work out. All I can say at this moment is that siding with Cleopatra is considerably easier than siding with Ptolemy, so I'm particularly interested in hearing from anyone who managed to beat the level siding with Ptolemy, but if you have tips for the Cleopatra side, please post them as well.

Here are some of the things I've tried when siding with Ptolemy. None of them have worked:
1. Hide in Ptolemy's base at the bottom center of the map near between the hospital and siege factory. Save up reinforcements until population reaches 130, then try to attack. Use catapults to kill any enemies that gather outside the wall.

Result: This works until the actual attack begins. Cleopatra simply has an overwhelming number of forces, and my army gets slaughtered.

2. As soon as the level starts, attack and destroy the Capitol.

Result: This works, but Cleopatra's forces retake it almost immediately. I don't have enough forces left to attack a town center as well.

3. Use centurion and roman legionnaire special attacks. Focus legionnaire's special attack on Cleopatra's royal guard.

Result: Legionnaires can only use their special power twice before needing to recharge. Centurions can only use it once. The powers might help, but their use is extremely limited. Cleopatra has much more than 2 royal guards.

4. Use hospital in aforementioned Ptolemy base to heal forces.

Result: The hospital's range is very limited. It's a lot of micromanagement. Healing helps, but it's ultimately not enough to destroy Cleopatra's gigantic armies.

5. With around 130 population, charge straight at the town centers and capitol, declining to fight Cleopatra's army completely.

Result: No significant amount of forces can even reach any of the 3 buildings before my entire army is slaughtered.

6. Bait Cleopatra's forces into attacking Caesar, then use ranged attacks to take out the attackers.

Result: Unlike in other levels, the computer doesn't fall for this. They fight back against units they're taking damage from.

7. Run to a gate and fight with Ptolemy's forces as soon as the level starts.

Result: Fine, I make it, taking significant losses along the way. I fight with Ptolemy's army, but all my forces except Caesar are wiped out, and I'm forced to retreat Caesar to one of Ptolemy's bases after he's the only one left alive.

There must be something I'm missing, because I've played and replayed this level many times on normal difficulty, but nothing I do seems to work. I can kill 2, possibly even 3 soldiers for every one I lose, but it's not enough. I think I would have to do a trade of roughly 1 for 5 or 1 for 10 to win this scenario, unless there's some hidden strategy I haven't considered. If you've beaten this level even on easy difficulty siding with Ptolemy, I'd be interested in knowing how. I haven't had to drop the difficulty for any level I've played so far, but I'd be lucky if I even can beat this one on easy.

Help!!

Mike Rodent
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Re: ROME'S PHARAOH- Solution.

Post by Mike Rodent »

Hi Guys.

If you think of the history. Caesar had to decide which one to side with.

So at the start only the tigers are in play. DO NOTHING. do not pick a side.

After 5min your transport ships arrive, You can march your men all over the map and more transports keep coming. Neither side will attack you. untill you pick a side. Put your reinforcements in battle formations at strategic points.

You can wait until you have 500 men if you want. Then kill Ptolemy as Caesar did. Only then can they attack you.

Even with 500 men, if they catch you on the march, they will annihilate you

Mike :D

generaltrebuchet
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Re: ROME'S PHARAOH- Solution.

Post by generaltrebuchet »

Thanks Mike! I'm glad you came back. When you went inactive a few days after you made your original post, I didn't think this level would ever be solved. Not many people have posted strategies for this level, but of those that have, I'm pretty sure you're the first to suggest delaying the tiger attack, because I've dug up just about every post on this topic that exists.

It sounds like a brilliant tactic. I hadn't even considered the possibility that the transports could begin arriving before Caesar made a decision. The closest I've come to trying your tactic is to try to move my troops in position before the tigers do anything, but of course none of your troops can move before the tigers kill someone. The moment your tiger attacks a diplomat, that diplomat's side turns hostile even if that diplomat hasn't died yet!

If this strategy works, some might argue that it's cheating, but is it really? The level's design is clearly broken. How do you win a level that's poorly thought out, if not outright designed for you to lose? Is waiting for reinforcements really any worse than, say, deleting the pyramid when the opposing party starts attacking? I think not. In reality, you could even justify both strategies. Deleting the pyramid can be seen as destroying the book of the dead rather than letting it fall into the enemy's hands, and waiting for more transports can be considered a strategic decision not to attack until you can back up the side you chose. Of course, if you can get 500 troops next to the town centers and capitol before your tigers attack, then the pyramid isn't even a factor anymore.

One more question: Mind if I ask how you came up with this strategy? I'm interested in your thought process.

Edit 1:
I wanted to update this for anyone who stumbles across this post in the future. I've confirmed that Mike's strategy works even if you're siding with Ptolemy on normal difficulty, but you can't save up to 500 population. I tried attacking Cleopatra's diplomat after I got 9 sets of reinforcements (which is not even close to 500), but within about 30 seconds, I lost the game because I had taken too long. I think the 2 hour timer starts from the moment you enter the game. I worked around the problem by attacking when I had only 6 sets of reinforcements. This gave me around 220 population. I split my reinforcements into 2 groups. Both were placed at gates closest to the 2 town centers.

Note that you can't actually enter the town until you've picked a side, so all your forces have to wait outside. Now here's what worked for me. The moment your forces are in position outside the gates, have the tigers attack Cleopatra's diplomat, then move your initial forces (the ones not from transport ships) and Caesar to the east gate immediately so you can let Ptolemy's forces in. Don't worry about the west gate because Ptolemy's siege weapons will destroy the gate for you. Feel free to tell your forces to attack the gate though, to speed up the process. At the east gate, make your initial forces hold their fire until after they join up with the reinforcement army you have waiting just outside the gates. You will take some losses because you can't fight back while moving, but this is preferable to standing your ground and losing everything before you can join up with your real army waiting outside the gates.

It's important not to rush straight for the town centers. At both the east and the west gates, you need to fight until about 80% of Cleopatra's forces in the immediate area are destroyed. Once this happens, some of Ptolemy's forces should still be alive. At this point, you're ready to attack the town center. Ignore all enemy forces and towers and focus all your attacks on the town center. Ptolemy's archers should cover you sufficiently while you're attacking the town center. Once a town center is destroyed, send that army straight at the capitol. Do the same with your other army. You should find that you have some forces left over from both gates, and the capitol should fall to one of your armies, if not both. The pyramid never becomes a factor because the raid is never launched.

Immediately after I won the game, I looked at the graph of each party's population, and it's obvious how badly Cleopatra cheats. Her population spikes almost immediately after you attack. She has so many forces magically spawned for her that it's incredible. To give you an idea of how badly she cheats, just look at the graph after you win. In one of my successful attempts, Cleopatra's army ballooned from about 300 to 550 population in about 1 minute. That means she gained more than 2 units every second! I don't see any way of winning this level without waiting for 6 sets of reinforcements. Just don't wait too much longer, because the 2 hour time limit will lose you the game. Using this strategy, I lost only about 1 unit for every 4 I killed, mainly because of the speed with which I attacked. If I had waited much longer, I would probably be overwhelmed.

Edit 2
I managed to beat the game on normal while siding with Cleopatra as well. I did it once using Mike's strategy, and then a second time normally. Beating Ptolemy is surprisingly easy compared to beating Cleopatra.

Here's how you win without deleting the pyramid or not choosing a side until you have enough forces: When the game starts, send Caesar and your starting forces to the west gate and crush all of Ptolemy's forces. Then, send them east while staying within the walls, taking out any of Ptolemy's units that have managed to infiltrate the town. Don't worry if the east town center or capitol gets taken; you can easily retake it. Your first set of reinforcements will soon arrive. Keep everything near the hospital in the east at first, then when you get to use your siege factories, position EVERYTHING in front of them and start making catapults. When Ptolemy attacks, his rams will go straight for your siege factories, so make sure to focus on them. After every attack, send the injured troops to the nearby hospital, then put them back in position next to the siege factory.

When more transports arrive, send some to the pyramid, which you will need to defend soon. Keep at least 50 forces at the pyramid, because Ptolemy will raid it constantly. After each raid, send the injured soldiers north to the hospital where they can heal, then send them back to the pyramid. Once you have about 200 forces in your main army, you can easily attack and win. I decided to play it safe and saved up another army of 100 and kept it in reserve in case anything broke into the town while I was out attacking. I took out the middle base first, using catapults to destroy the gates and towers. Then I easily finished off the other 2. Using this method, I killed more than 10 enemy soldiers for every one I lost. You can probably get by with much less hospital healing and still win, though you will lose more soldiers.

TLDR
Siding with Cleopatra is super easy and you can win even without Mike's method and without deleting the pyramid. Siding with Ptolemy makes the game impossible (so far as I can tell) unless you save up enough forces before picking a side. Why is siding with Ptolemy so much harder? One reason is the time limit. If you side with Cleopatra, you can save up an army for as long as you want without consequences (I ended the game with 400+ population), but if you side with Ptolemy, you have to win in 2 hours. I also think Cleopatra gets way more reinforcements than Ptolemy if you side with Ptolemy. If you side with Cleopatra, the difference between their armies is much less.

Mike's method is as close as you will get to beating the game siding with Ptolemy without cheating. If you still feel bad about it, then think of it this way: You don't need to enter any cheat codes or delete the pyramid, and the level is clearly broken. Either the developers didn't want you to side with Ptolemy and made it a bogus option or they didn't properly test the level before they released it.

Mike Rodent
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Re: ROME'S PHARAOH- Solution.

Post by Mike Rodent »

Yep.

I Decided I would try every possible tactic to find the hidden key to the problem.

So I put the tigers under a tree and started poking around in every corner looking for a cunningly hidden
asset. Whilst I was doing that, time passed and transports suddenly appeared. After that it was game over for the enemy.
It was logic combined with luck, as with many discoveries in the past.

I don't think it is cheating, Caesar was a master of tactics and playing for time would have been one of them.

If you want to test yourself, put it on hard and try to win with a minimum number of reinforcements.

Regards Mikwe 8)

Mike Rodent
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Re: ROME'S PHARAOH- Solution.

Post by Mike Rodent »

PS There are two landing sites. one inside the city walls and one outside. I landed troops at both, before stabbing Ptolemy in the back. Mike :?:

Mike Rodent
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Re: ROME'S PHARAOH- Solution.

Post by Mike Rodent »

PPS On reflection,

I think on a second occasion, I started the game and went away to look at a problem, I have my own business in North Wales UK.

I returned after 30min and found 12 transports waiting at the Rome port. I unloaded them all at Alex. and I don't think the timer started until I attacked Ptolemy


Mike :)

generaltrebuchet
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Re: ROME'S PHARAOH- Solution.

Post by generaltrebuchet »

I actually didn't know there was a second landing site until I sided with Cleopatra once. I did use that landing site, but only when siding with Cleopatra, though I suppose it wouldn't be out of the question to use it when siding with Ptolemy. After all, they don't know what side you will choose. I think if you use the landing site inside the town, you will be able to position forces next to the town center and capitol and win almost instantly.

As far as I know, there is no timer when you're siding with Cleopatra. You can take as long as you want, which is one reason I think the level is strongly biased against Ptolemy. I took way longer than 2 hours when siding with Cleopatra and still managed to win easily.

The logic and luck combination sounds potent, but don't discount your persistence. The problem with not giving yourself credit is that you didn't know there was a solution. I thought it was impossible. To give luck a chance to work, you either have to believe there is a solution for some reason or to be willing to put in lots of time, taking the risk that there really is no solution after all and therefore wasting all that time. I guess it helps if you're having fun or doing something else.

What's a hidden asset btw?

Mike Rodent
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Re: ROME'S PHARAOH- Solution.

Post by Mike Rodent »

Hi-- Mine General.

It was a bit more than I first told you.

If you pick either side --you loose, it was not winnable. So I thought that I would wait a while and see if one of them started the fight, in a way that would be more advantageous for my side.

Whist I waited, I started looking in all the corners, for the missing key. EE has a history of hiding useful things in obscure places. Weapons, supplies, rebels that could fight for you etc. Also I was going to try looking inside buildings.

In the real history Caesar forted up in the Library and defended there (accidentally burning down the greatest repository of manuscripts in the known world) , but that was better than loosing. He was the greatest Caesar of all.

So I was going to try that. Then the transports arrived. I unloaded them and found that I could move the troops about, but not attack any side.

The rest falls into place from there.

Glad I could help others beat the "machine" because it is a cheating sob when you play it on hard levels.

Regards Mike :D

Edit I always play on Hard levels. I could not win any way I tried.

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