stupid question?

[Ghost]

When Lusitania, Krimson and some other ee clans decided to move to AoC, years ago, ALL these "experts" accused all of us of cheating because we were able to rush by 3f11. That is a fact, and anyone who was around then will tell you it's true.

Bin is right. None of you guys have a clue how much we got accused of cheating. EE players were the building blocks for what AoC is today.

[taco]

i never doubted that u can slut by 3, ive said its possible in about 2:20, just thought u may of forgotten the average slutting time in ur time out. u need to let go of the history, if u are to keep holding onto it, aoc players must still have that pov, which if u played would no is wrong.

3 rangers sacrifices wood for ur houses which is far more important then a 3rd ranger early on, as well as making a slower amount of ca 1-4f11 which is when u need them, this somewhat depense on ur civ, for btd i would REALLY recommend 2 rangers, for expan a quick 3rd ranger at 5-7f11 after u have ur base sett up with morale and a decent amount of ca coming through, however u need ur ca out early on with houses and a 3rd ranger start will ruin this, not being out of wood early on, u could still have woodcutting in civ and u would b out of it that early on(u would also have to sacrafic either building cr, or gold mining to have it in civ(from memory)..

the 3 ranger strat itself may not b bad long game as ur , but it certainly is pointless if u wish to continue to argue upgrading ca early as apposed to massing, aoc players may of accused eec players of cheating ages ago, but thats irrelevant isn't it they adapted, learn t and became experts 1ce again, eec may b the building blocks of all slutting, but things have changed, i remember when ca players use2 play without speed on ca, now its rare to c a civ without it(from memory nemo thats what u sacrifice out of ur civ, at least against krass, it only worked because of the early hero, u also didn't play against his sword slut,which is what where actually discussing is ca defence against swords, u played against his ca, correct me if im wrong it has been a while since that game took place fairly sure tho) so no doubt it may work for u nemo ur civ is tailored to it, no spd giving u points for balli ups and what not to counter his ca, but how many players civs actually sacrific spd, att or range? not that many and when in most cases ppl will get rid of attack, and in which case im talking about the general ca civs(both expan and settlements)

[10010 1111 10]

Im gonna do this once(mostly for the benefit of the person who asked about it), then I'm done discussing this with you as you are obviously closed-minded and clearly think yours is the only viable solution to a ca defense against sword rushing. The person who asked the question can make up his own mind.

My most common start/civ generates the following, and it has worked outstandingly well against the best sword rushers in the game.

It gets: 3 arch ranges, 1 settlement, 4 towers, 2 houses, 6 CA (with 3 more in the cue), and 1 attack upgrade by 3f11. Followed by a constant production of CA and a steady increase in income.

CIV:

CA

• Attack
• Range
• Speed
• Cost Reduction

Cits

• Speed
• HP

Buildings

• Cost Reduction

Econ

• Gold
• Wood

Field Cannons

• Range

You can argue this all you want, but in the end you're wrong.
*Oh, one helpful tip; early returns are key. Have a nice day.

/waits for the inevitable "OMG noob 1v1"

[taco]

if u actually played i would 1v1 u, how do u expect to get a good flow of gold with only 1 settlement? do u eec boom and pop it?
other then that the civ is quite good.. building btd is fairly important tho.. but ppl can focus alot more cits onto towers to get them up also.

binary i no im very closed minded about this, but its not for no reason, the only difference between u being closed minded and me is that ur coming from past experiences, while i am coming from the here and now, our problems actually lie within our civs, and u can agree to disagree but when refering it bak to our civs where both not wrong, where i prefer btd on towers and ca, while u prefer woodcutting, in the end there slight differences and may or may not suit the player who wishes to use the civ

the civ which works best for me is

ca:
attack
build time decrease
range
speed
cost reduction

buildings:
cost reduction
build time decrease

gold mining

balli range

seige range

[PeLlE]

goldmining and woodcutting is the key to a good ca boom
+ eec style with 1 populated gold mine is probly the best ebcause you got:
small base (easy tod efend)
faster cit production
good gold income
good wood income
less wood to spend on settlements at start
faster ca production due to 3rd arch range

[Silence]

Im gonna do this once(mostly for the benefit of the person who asked about it), then I'm done discussing this with you as you are obviously closed-minded and clearly think yours is the only viable solution to a ca defense against sword rushing. The person who asked the question can make up his own mind.

My most common start/civ generates the following, and it has worked outstandingly well against the best sword rushers in the game.

It gets: 3 arch ranges, 1 settlement, 4 towers, 2 houses, 6 CA (with 3 more in the cue), and 1 attack upgrade by 3f11. Followed by a constant production of CA and a steady increase in income.

CIV:

CA

• Attack
• Range
• Speed
• Cost Reduction

Cits

• Speed
• HP

Buildings

• Cost Reduction

Econ

• Gold
• Wood

Field Cannons

• Range

You can argue this all you want, but in the end you're wrong.
*Oh, one helpful tip; early returns are key. Have a nice day.

/waits for the inevitable "OMG noob 1v1"

ok binair, when you build 1 settlement cause lack of res how are you gonna get 2 starting gold mines?
cause thats kinda the ideal way to get a good ca based army 2 gold mines.

[Captain Nemo]

i never doubted that u can slut by 3, ive said its possible in about 2:20, just thought u may of forgotten the average slutting time in ur time out. u need to let go of the history, if u are to keep holding onto it, aoc players must still have that pov, which if u played would no is wrong.

3 rangers sacrifices wood for ur houses which is far more important then a 3rd ranger early on, as well as making a slower amount of ca 1-4f11 which is when u need them, this somewhat depense on ur civ, for btd i would REALLY recommend 2 rangers, for expan a quick 3rd ranger at 5-7f11 after u have ur base sett up with morale and a decent amount of ca coming through, however u need ur ca out early on with houses and a 3rd ranger start will ruin this, not being out of wood early on, u could still have woodcutting in civ and u would b out of it that early on(u would also have to sacrafic either building cr, or gold mining to have it in civ(from memory)..

the 3 ranger strat itself may not b bad long game as ur , but it certainly is pointless if u wish to continue to argue upgrading ca early as apposed to massing, aoc players may of accused eec players of cheating ages ago, but thats irrelevant isn't it they adapted, learn t and became experts 1ce again, eec may b the building blocks of all slutting, but things have changed, i remember when ca players use2 play without speed on ca, now its rare to c a civ without it(from memory nemo thats what u sacrifice out of ur civ, at least against krass, it only worked because of the early hero, u also didn't play against his sword slut,which is what where actually discussing is ca defence against swords, u played against his ca, correct me if im wrong it has been a while since that game took place fairly sure tho) so no doubt it may work for u nemo ur civ is tailored to it, no spd giving u points for balli ups and what not to counter his ca, but how many players civs actually sacrific spd, att or range? not that many and when in most cases ppl will get rid of attack, and in which case im talking about the general ca civs(both expan and settlements)

Well yes I do have a civs that takes out ca speed, and gives me range and attack on field cannons and expansionism instead but I didn't use that civs. I used one almost identical to bin's except I didn't have any field cannon ups, nor did I make any in the game but it had buildings btd which helps a little. I didn't sacrofice anything for the 3rd archery btw, early dropoff with wood allows me to get the houses very quickly as I put my cits to wood before choosing civs. With cit speed and wood cutting in civs you would discover how much easier it is to get much wood btw. Sometimes I buy 15% gold up in about 4-5f11 but then Im basing my game on a 12f11 kill or something and not gathering any food whatsoever.

Btw I have about 7 ca civs and they all have a designed strategy that goes with them. All expansionism strats start off with only 2 archery range becuause if I choose expansionism it's because Ill be booming and gathering food from the beginning, and then I can't keep 3 archery going while also upgrading. Often I don't build houses at all but go for a fast wall instead actually, usually do this as pocket.

And btw it's not irrelevant that eec players got accused of cheating and aoc players adapted later on since you're basing some of your arguement on how bin isn't up to date with ca strategies. Obviusly he is.

lastly: don't get me wrong, 2 archery range is often a good start and I also use it much, but 3 archeries absolutely works very well too.

[ben55]

ok binair, when you build 1 settlement cause lack of res how are you gonna get 2 starting gold mines?
cause thats kinda the ideal way to get a good ca based army 2 gold mines.

1 Gold mine = 2 CA essentially 35*2=70 gold mine = 90 if you have 6 on it

[10010 1111 10]

ok binair, when you build 1 settlement cause lack of res how are you gonna get 2 starting gold mines?
cause thats kinda the ideal way to get a good ca based army 2 gold mines.

At 3f11 I build a second settlement and pop it to TC. Unless I have a double gold then I just pop.

1 Gold mine = 2 CA essentially 35*2=70 gold mine = 90 if you have 6 on it

• 1 gold mine = (6cits x 15g) per every 63seconds = 90g/63secons
• (126sec = 180g)+200g = 380g by 2:30 f11 (includes initial travel time from cap to mine)
• 9 CA + 1 upgrade = 360g = 6 out by 3f11 with 3 in the cue + Attack up
• 380-360 = 20 extra gold
• And that doesn't even include tribute which you will hopefully get
• Also, during this time cits are being produced from the capitol and sent to a 2nd gold mine, increasing the amount of gold gathered during those 3f11 minutes.

Any other questions?

[Silence]

ok binair, when you build 1 settlement cause lack of res how are you gonna get 2 starting gold mines?
cause thats kinda the ideal way to get a good ca based army 2 gold mines.

At 3f11 I build a second settlement and pop it to TC. Unless I have a double gold then I just pop.

1 Gold mine = 2 CA essentially 35*2=70 gold mine = 90 if you have 6 on it

• 1 gold mine = (6cits x 15g) per every 63seconds = 90g/63secons
• (126sec = 180g)+200g = 380g by 2:30 f11 (includes initial travel time from cap to mine)
• 9 CA + 1 upgrade = 360g = 6 out by 3f11 with 3 in the cue + Attack up
• 380-360 = 20 extra gold
• And that doesn't even include tribute which you will hopefully get
• Also, during this time cits are being produced from the capitol and sent to a 2nd gold mine, increasing the amount of gold gathered during those 3f11 minutes.

Any other questions?

i tryd it out, and i tested it, it seemed the 3rd archery range is out of use...
and how much cits on the houses and towers in start?

[taco]

generally its 3-4 cits per towers, i would recomend 4 since u dont have btd, ive tested it, im not as use2 it as others here but to begin with its slightly slower but makes up for it quickly, as long as u feed ur mines/wood, and keep on popping ca indivually out of ranges(clicking on the ranger then pressing c on each, not grouped) so ull have maximum ca for resources without having a line up, im not use2 it, and not converting to it anytime soon, but i can c y its lasted so long