NeoEE vs Game Ranger

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BigRon
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NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by BigRon »

Currently there are still A LOT more people on GR and it looks like no one of them is going to switch to NeoEE. I know the mods on GR ban everyone who advertises NeoEE and even with all the advertising by hosting games like "NeoEE -> JOIN REAL LOBBY" it doesnt seem to be enough.

So what's your plan guys? How will you get the majority of the GR people to the NeoEE lobby? Can't you release a new "gameranger" patch (e.g. RC Patch 3.0) which automatically installs NeoEE on their computer?

No hate to Jodocus and RealForce but looking at the current situation and the amount of players on NeoEE it looks like that the project has failed. Basically its just the Save-EE players who moved to Lobby.

mfg mujaheddin

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Arntzen
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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by Arntzen »

It's not complete you retard.
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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by BigRon »

"it's not complete" is no excuse. I'm sure that the people from Gameranger have never been to the original lobby before and Gameranger has always been their only source to play EE. It works fine for them so why should they switch to the NeoEE lobby? If you don't get them NOW you will NEVER get them.

I don't know the reason why the GR people didn't move to Save-EE years ago but chances are high that it will happen again but this time with NeoEE.

On a good day on NeoEE (old Save-EE):
People online: 53
People afk: 39
Games hosted: 3

On a good day on GR
People IN games 100+
People afk: ???
Games hosted: 30+

I don't even know if its Jodocus goal to move all of the GR people to NeoEE or if everything is just for good old times sake.

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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by Omega »

When NeoEE is actually ready for official release, then will be the time to (try) to get Game Ranger players to migrate. Trying to get them to migrate to a system that isn't yet finished, and will certainly undergo further updates and downtime, is not a good idea.

Game Ranger players are not the most technically literate bunch, and there's no way to centrally communicate with them. They'll assume that the NeoEE of today is as good as it'll get, will likely get frustrated with updates and any downtime, and possibly give up and go back to GR forever due to those things.

There's also the whole hosting thing, which NeoEE will hopefully solve in the future. If everyone can host on NeoEE just like they can on GR, without anything "complicated" like forwarding ports or enabling DMZ, especially since that doesn't always do it due to security software on the computer, et cetera (and god forbid people who have trouble even logging into their router actually know what security software they have installed, running, and know how to operate said software).

The reason that you've seen Save-EE players migrate is largely due to the following factors:
1) Save-EE players are generally much more technically literate than GR players
2) There are central lines of communication to Save-EE players (this forum, emails to all forum users, lobby announcements)
3) The Save-EE staff have been providing as much support as they can for players to get NeoEE up and running, and encouragement for players to do just that
4) Because the Save-EE system doesn't involve any kind of VPN like GR does, the whole hosting dilemma that would occur if GR players migrated is completely moot. Save-EE players who can host have everything done successfully, and those that can't are generally those that don't care enough to host (or are unlucky enough to have an extremely lame ISP) and have thus accepted their inability to host

Attempts to migrate the average GR player to NeoEE right now, as opposed to later, will probably result in a sustained higher population of GR players and a lower population of NeoEE players in the long run. If your goal is for the highest possible long term population of players on NeoEE, then wait for the appropriate time to advertise, which will undoubtedly be signaled by RealForce and Joducus.
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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by Omega »

BigRon wrote:I don't know the reason why the GR people didn't move to Save-EE years ago but chances are high that it will happen again but this time with NeoEE.
GR players didn't move to the lobby largely because they thought the system was too complicated.

They had to use the patch tab to install patches.

They had to copy IPs from a game listing.

They had to switch to the game.

They then had to paste the IP to join the game they wanted.

They couldn't host like they could on GR, and they did not want to even attempt to mess around with router configuration (at least, many of them). This was a HUGE factor.

Another factor was that they found the lobby to be a bit unwelcoming by a lot of the players here. Obviously, that wouldn't have been as big of a problem if they could all host and just associate with other GR types, etc.

If you understand why GR players didn't migrate to Save-EE, you'll understand why trying to get them to migrate to NeoEE right this very instant before it's finished is a mistake.
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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by BigRon »

Okay, I'll take my "NOW" back. Your post is 100% true and legit. But still I'm asking myself how is it possible to get the GR people to NeoEE SOMEDAY. It looks so close to impossible to me. So I just wanted to know if you ever thought about it.

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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by Jodocus_ »

>> Currently there are still A LOT more people on GR

True. Nothing to add.

>> and it looks like no one of them is going to switch to NeoEE

Not completely true. MW, RC and Sir are looking forward to the release of NeoEE. With the big GR clans in NeoEE I expect many considering to move as well. And if we are lucky some will do.

>> I know the mods on GR ban everyone who advertises NeoEE and even with all the advertising by hosting games like "NeoEE -> JOIN REAL LOBBY" it doesnt seem to be enough.

Some already know about it. The reasons for staying in GR are multiple. Mostly the newbes did not get it from ad games. More experienced players stay for other reasons: their clan, bigger group, ability to host...

>> So what's your plan guys?

Keeping calm during the development phase. :) As long as we haven't finished the NPS, we don't even try to do very big advertisments or any measures. If we want for "fight" GameRanger, we must offer something coequal or even better. :)

>> How will you get the majority of the GR people to the NeoEE lobby? Can't you release a new "gameranger" patch (e.g. RC Patch 3.0) which automatically installs NeoEE on their computer?

We already thought on something like that. But this is something we think on later. My priority is to complete the project first before I begin to compete.

>> No hate to Jodocus and RealForce but looking at the current situation and the amount of players on NeoEE it looks like that the project has failed. Basically its just the Save-EE players who moved to Lobby.

Maybe. The condemned live longer. The project is still in development.

______________________________________________________________________

>> "it's not complete" is no excuse.

Why not? GR is too much an competitor for a half-finished lobby.

>> I'm sure that the people from Gameranger have never been to the original lobby before and
>> Gameranger has always been their only source to play EE.

You are right on this. But don't underestimate the dynamics of player choices on where to play. The WON Lobby already proofed that it is an ideal place to play EE online together. Stuff like a TS server for donators, the different game creation modes, a public chat, a way bigger friend list, no annoying ads, ... are arguments for NeoEE and against GameRanger. If GR wouldn't fear about NeoEE (or Save-EE before) they wouldn't censor it.

>> If you don't get them NOW you will NEVER get them.

That's why I prefered to be silent about NeoEE in GR since the last months. The exodus will begin with the clans.

>> On a good day on NeoEE (old Save-EE):
>> People online: 53
>> People afk: 39
>> Games hosted: 3

Those numbers actually vary between NeoEE and Save-EE. The number of people online strongly correlates with the open and running games. The game frequency is much higher in NeoEE than in Save-EE, a positive side effect on the WON lobby which makes it easier to join by it's nature.

>> On a good day on GR
>> People IN games 100+
>> People afk: ???
>> Games hosted: 30+

Very optimistic numbers. Also, GR has no real AOC-scene.

>> I don't even know if its Jodocus goal to move all of the GR people to NeoEE or if everything is just for good old times sake.

My goal is to fill the lobby.

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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by bosshaft »

Time for sone realltalk from the BOSS.

This game is dead. ITS DEAD
simple as that.

since ~1 - 1,5 years there are about 50 Users online in save EE, and only like 25% are actually hosting and trying to play games. The other 75% are a couple of guys beeing AFK or chatting in lobby - tricky, arntzen, lightnessFAG and so on. They discuss the whole day about oldschool vs newschool and live in their own EE world, unable to realise that this game ist SIMPLY DEAD - no one cares about a pc strategy game released over 10 years ago.

I can give u a protip and in my opinion the only successfull way to reach some potential new ee players - ask a famous gaming youtuber to show an EE gameplay (would be good if u wont show oldguard in mid trying to rush with 6 swords after 5 f11) and make some advertisement for EE.

Mfg Andreas Ulrich

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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by Jodocus_ »

>> Okay, I'll take my "NOW" back. Your post is 100% true and legit. But still I'm asking myself how is it
>> possible to get the GR people to NeoEE SOMEDAY. It looks so close to impossible to me.
>> So I just wanted to know if you ever thought about it.

Well my long term thinking was aiming onto a strong website. Clan profiles, Player profiles and the access to it inside the lobby via the Community Tab. Bigger friend list, more game hosting modes, aa public chat with a real community (GR has 0 communication, it is 50% just a shared LAN party place where different groups never communicate), a TS server for donators, effective protection against cheating (one of the biggest issues in GR that people don't like), ...

I am always open for more ideas.

>> This game is dead. ITS DEAD

As long as someone plays it, it's not. It was already dead for commercial use 6 years ago.

>> The other 75% are a couple of guys beeing AFK or chatting in lobby - tricky, arntzen, lightnessFAG and so on. They discuss the whole day about oldschool vs newschool and live in their own EE world, unable to realise that this game ist SIMPLY DEAD

Give NeoEE a try before you judge. You are all preeeeetty hastily with your analysis.

>> no one cares about a pc strategy game released over 10 years ago.

AoE 2 is even older and still has an even bigger community than EE. No argument.

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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by BigRon »

"Not completely true. MW, RC and Sir are looking forward to the release of NeoEE. With the big GR clans in NeoEE I expect many considering to move as well. And if we are lucky some will do."

>>> This looks pretty good cuz I realized most of them are from South America and if most of them will switch to NeoEE and advertise it on their website I'm sure the other spanish people will follow.


"If GR wouldn't fear about NeoEE (or Save-EE before) they wouldn't censor it."

>>> Is there no way to talk this out? What would GR loose? Maybe a few hundred? It says that there are 47.134 Users online right now so what does it matter if there are hundred less?

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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by Jodocus_ »

>> Is there no way to talk this out? What would GR loose? Maybe a few hundred? It says that there are 47.134 Users online right now so what does it matter if there are hundred less?

Let's do some naive fallacy:
Each time you join/host a game you see a 400*400px (or so) sized Video/Audio. Let's say they earn 0,50€ per View and 1,00€ per click (no idea on this numbers, just free style). Let's estimate each player on GR joins/hosts in 24 hours 2,5 games. This makes 1,25€/(player * day). Let's estimate that in average 200 players play within a day. Makes 250€/day. Also, every player sees a big flash banner when logged in, let's say 0,10€ for each player seeing it: total it makes 270€/day now.
So we get to 8370€/month.

For a medium-sized company like GameRanger I wouldn't say no to this number.

GR makes it's money with maaany games just played by "few hundreds". It's just logic that they fight for every single one.

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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by Omega »

Hypothetically speaking, it might go like this:

1. Engage with communities on GR. There are several distinct communities on GR (MiddleWarriors) for example, that have good communication channels that don't encompass only using GR. They have websites, forums, skype, instant messaging, et cetera, and can communicate with others that way. Some of these communities are even fairly centralized, like MW.

2. Mobilize said communities to get on NeoEE, and to encourage other GR players they may interact with on GR to get on NeoEE.

3. Recruit NeoEE players to go on GR and try and recruit players just like #2.

4. Advertising on GR is most effective if it takes place inside the game, i.e. pre-launch (inside the game) or during actual play. AFAIK, GR does not track what is being said and by whom in these instances, and it probably wouldn't be worth it for them to bother doing so. Thus, it is unlikely for anyone to be banned from the system for advertising a different system via this route.

It'd likely be a fairly slow, gradual shift, and one that takes continuous effort, but I think it's definitely possible. I wouldn't suggest that it's possible to get 100% of GR players over to NeoEE, though, nor would I suggest that's even necessarily the best outcome. Assuming that, in every respect, NeoEE is equal to or better than GR (a strong bet once it's properly finished), then players will inevitably trickle in from GR, and the more players come, the stronger the incentive is for new players to come (even the exodus of known GR clans from GR will be a huge benefit in terms of drawing players, as outlined above).

Hypothetically speaking still, if a small population remained on GR as one probably will, this can serve as a tool to engage past players who have GR but haven't played EE in ages, especially new GR players who thought they couldn't still play EE. Along with periodic trips to GR to advertise, this infusion of new players would be great. If 100% of the GR population switched (which would still be pretty fantastic), that infusion of new players via GR would likely be cut off.

----

@Jodocus, if I may make some suggestions to think about:

1. For voice chat, use Mumble. Mumble is great from a user perspective (very easy to set up, etc., and my favorite feature is auto-equalization that works pretty much flawlessly--no more asking people asking people to turn up/turn down their mic, or doing it through controls on the client), as well as an administrative perspective (low resource use).

2. Resources for clans. We had a program awhile back on Save-EE allowing clans to get their own website like yoursubdomain.ee-clans.com (ex: nf.ee-clans.com), as well as having a list of hosted clans in the server announcement. It worked pretty well for awhile, but the main issue was that people just didn't know anything about web development/web design, so I was basically running everybody's website... Would be pretty easy to make it simple, easy, and automated for anyone who wanted to, though. In fact, you could probably go the super-simple route of just using different WordPress installations with a tweaked EE-related theme, or something like that.

3. A decent ladder & tournament system. Something we never really got off the ground.
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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by Arntzen »

What's a TS server?
Weren't you talking about possibly making a ladder as well?
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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by Omega »

Arntzen wrote:What's a TS server?
Weren't you talking about possibly making a ladder as well?
TS = TeamSpeak = a voice server.

Similar to Mumble and Ventrilo.
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Re: NeoEE vs Game Ranger

Post by Arntzen »

Ah, thought it was like a new "server" inside WON lobby or something. MW has a TS server running and I'm pretty sure people can use that if people wants. If you got a clan just ask Al (I know slipknot's nF was allowed to use it back then).
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