Discussion

[herik]

So basically forums become dead lately...his an interesting topic that most people try to improve upon:

Player Speed-

Explain how to get player speed
Show your best player speed

The average player doesn't understand player speed and its significance in the early stages of the game and macroing your economy, debate away guys...

[Captain Nemo]

how is ps important in early game? imo it's important to get the stuff u need done done quickly. whether or not u get a high ps doing so is pretty insignificant.

[herik]

The 2-3 f11s is basically all host keys... if I am correct this does most of your player speed? If you execute a rush what is going to be faster, hotkeys and mouse or just mouse? I can tell you one thing I press my most hotkeys in those first f11's in that time period and it slowly drags down, coz my macroing isn't the best as it could be. later on in the game.
hotkeys in those first fll- H, shift C, shift-tab 12 times, shift 9, press B 3 times, shift cits to tower (T), H, Swords (S), H again and then cits (C) again, N for settlements, then H/C/S continually, you also got to add shift to cits from towers to hunt/wood/forage/houses/blah blah, then you got ctrl 1,2,3 etc. Early stage is my biggers ps and thats why...

Plus nemo if you don't pull off a good early start, your basically gona b bhind/ potentially lose the game in the first 15fll which is the most crucial part of the game, depending how aggressive the opponent is. This is for all setts. ^

PS measures how fast you are doing things in a time period, correct me if I am wrong.

[Captain Nemo]

u are wrong. I select first 7 cits with mouse lasso, next 5 with hotkeys. yes I do 7/5... So u get a much higher ps, but may not be faster than me still. Mouse clicks gives less ps, but is not necessarily slower. I don't push hotkeys for everything. Like getting barracks I find it just as easy using the mouse for them. in mod dm however, I use b. My ps in the start of the game is only slightly more than the rest of the game... Btw in liga it's fairly simple to put 5 cits on forage or on wood and search hippo etc. I don't see how it's the same for all sets

[herik]

Hmm I find mouse slower/clumsy, maybe its to do with my mouse sensitivity, but it's not trust worthy and doesn't work for me.
In liga sure, but your still using: H,D,CCCC, Shift-tab, more H's and more C's, + I'm sure if you look at samuels PS, it would say otherwise for liga to. Your also gona b using shift for where the dog moves, while constantly pressing H/C, also ctrl 2 for dog and 3 for the cit getting the hippo. tbh I find liga starting more confusing then mids, mids is a natural step by step, liga is a constant movement, you have dog going around, cits been rallied to different spots constantly moved for a nice macro. you have to keep an eye out for the cit getting the hippo making sure he doesn't kill it b4 taking it back to capital. It requires just as much PS, just in a different way.

[BigRon]

The only thing Samuel is fast at is cumming to everything that includes Krass

[Samuel]

The only thing Samuel is fast at is cumming to everything that includes Krass

haha man
you are epic, thanks, and no I'm not being sarcastic lol
Just told Krass about your post, and it's actually amazing that my friendship with Andreas is actually so well known. That's the price of celebrity I guess

I will reply to the matter of the topic after I have lunch

[Simple]

I think if u want to have a fast rush in Gren for example you NEED hotkeys. Choose the cits with hotkey is much faster than choose them with mouse and building räx with B aswell than with mouse.
Thats how u get the perfect rush (in gren) ofc things like choosing the civ very fast influence your rush aswell thats why my gren civ is on top always lol so u dont need to scroll down.
In Liga i think hotkeys are not so neccesary it depends on the sett tbh.

[Samuel]

Ok, so here's my opinion:

I think in a way being able to get a proper Mid SH sword rush in Mid SH requires better mechanics than setting up a start at Liga 1v1 ww1 (I'll use this age as an example).

For example, it takes nothing to learn that you just have to have 4 foragers (with hippoes of course), 6 wood cutters and 6 citizens gathering iron and getting the tank factory.

Obviously there are some strategical factors to be kept in mind, such as the timing of the eventual TC, deciding on how to manage the amount of food gatheres and wood gatherers (this has got to do with the topic, even though it may not seem so at the moment, it will become clearer as you read on).
The secret of ligasetting, economically wise, is the management of the woodcutters, and the way someone manages their woodcutters is probably the biggest decider to a Ligasetting game.
Mostly at the beginning the things you need to do revolve around forcing your resources (by making citizens deposit them before they reach 15) and scouting your enemy ... sometimes just by forcing them you can get a TC 1 f11 or even 2 f11 earlier and have a boost in your play, by keeping your resources as close as possible to 0.

I think that's what makes people somewhat confused at times when they try to get into ligasets (of course you can do it on Mid SH too, but the speed of it makes it somewhat harder), though you can still play ok if you dont force them and keep them low.
If you have a player like Wasted, who's not that great (but in my opinion he's quite underrated), he can have pretty good "starts" at every age, and still play pretty well, but if you want to play at a great level you will have to do those things, which might not be necessarily that easy.

Still Mid SH is a faster paced set mechanically wise, the fact of it being slower means that most people don't go through all of this and so it's not as necessary, though if you wanted to do it in Mid SH as well, it would require a faster speed, hence why Mid SH, played at it's greatest level, in spite of its being not as deep strategically wise, requires the player to be quicker.
As for the overall mechanics, perhaps I can't say as it is just different.

[Captain Nemo]

Hmm I find mouse slower/clumsy, maybe its to do with my mouse sensitivity, but it's not trust worthy and doesn't work for me.
In liga sure, but your still using: H,D,CCCC, Shift-tab, more H's and more C's, + I'm sure if you look at samuels PS, it would say otherwise for liga to. Your also gona b using shift for where the dog moves, while constantly pressing H/C, also ctrl 2 for dog and 3 for the cit getting the hippo. tbh I find liga starting more confusing then mids, mids is a natural step by step, liga is a constant movement, you have dog going around, cits been rallied to different spots constantly moved for a nice macro. you have to keep an eye out for the cit getting the hippo making sure he doesn't kill it b4 taking it back to capital. It requires just as much PS, just in a different way.

if u find that hard u should stay away from mod dm lol. thats like 10 times the speed of a liga start. and it doesn't get slower in the game. theres so much to do that u can't actually get it all done. liga (the start) is MUCH more strategic than it is hard to perform. as the game goes on of course it changes but the start is the easiest in ee. low ress, few cits = easy start. SL is obviusly easiest.

[herik]

I am well aware that mod dm is the top sett, but tbh I've never really given it a go, so ye... What I've been trying to get across to you was this, sam explained it better but w/e...All setts require a dedicated amount of focus, your not gona b just watching cits get food, as sam says your counting how much food they gathered b4 (15) and forcing them back to either make a faster cit or to make a faster building/unit.
Your going to b pressing H/C as fast and precise as possible because you want that 1 cit advantage over enemy blah blah blah. Your right 2 very differnt sets, play styles, but my opion of liga been a very slow sett, no I don't believe so.

[ben45]

zeke/phobia because his stone dm, only once have i seen him shut his eyes after playing this setting, you start off making barracks like every other age does, the concentration to set them up in such a way to get the maxium 'sex cauldren' as i like to call it to pump out as fast as possible to one spot
Mining is the extraction of valuable minerals or other geological materials from the earth from an orebody, lode, vein, seam, or reef, which forms the mineralized package of economic interest to the miner.

To gain access to the mineralised package within an area it is often necessary to mine through or to remove waste material which is not of immediate interest to the miner. The total movement of ore and waste constitute the mining process. Often more waste than ore is mined during the life of a mine, depending on the nature and location of the orebody. Waste removal and placement is a major cost to the mining operator, so detailed characterization of the waste material forms an essential part of the geological exploration programme for a mining operation.

The waste is classified as either sterile or mineralised, with acid generating potential, and the movement and storage of this material forms a major part of the mine planning process. When the mineralised package is determined by an economic cut-off, the near-grade mineralised waste is usually dumped separately with view to later treatment should market conditions change and it becomes economic viable. Civil engineering design parameters are used in the design of the waste dumps, and special conditions apply to high-rainfall areas and to seismically active areas. Waste dump designs must meet all regulatory requirements of the country in whose jurisdiction the mine is located. It is also common practice to rehabilitate dumps to an internationally acceptable standard, which in some cases means that higher standards than the local regulatory standard are applied.[


zeke for stone dm

[Samuel]

Mid SH is faster paced than Liga, herik.
You cannot deny that Mid SH is just faster paced, as well as most other sets.

The Liga player's strength will mostly be game analysis.
To put it more bluntly ... IQ has a stronger influence on Ligasetting than it has on Mid SH.

But Liga being faster paced? No way, you got it wrong ...
Mechanics might be a bit different, but Mid SH is still a faster paced set.

[herik]

but in both setts your busy, in mid your not so concerned about the little things as much liga, what im trying to say is your putting player speed into different things on liga, eco management, scouting properly, looking out for what enemy has etc. mid is very straight forward and is a practised strategy.

[Samuel]

You mean in the end the Mid starts you come to play will have been assimilated in a way that it actually requires little effort to actually do them?, whereas in liga you will have to adapt depending on the game? Well more or less you still have a scheme you can follow in liga too, so it's not like you will have a different start each time. The little things will be different each time, agreed on that, and that will make one better than the other (well not just that, but that's still quite important in a liga game).

Mid SH is still faster paced to me. Maybe I'm not so accustomed to the way Mid SH works, I don't know, but that's my opinion