Best EE Player Of All Time!?!

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Best EE'er of all time?

Samuel
8
6%
Omega
8
6%
ras
14
10%
Epic
9
6%
Wolvy
2
1%
Phobia/Zeke
17
12%
lion_
7
5%
Bones
6
4%
Krass
35
24%
BE
4
3%
Elfanor
5
3%
Lavanger
7
5%
Twisted Bum
2
1%
Goldeneye
16
11%
Captain Nemo
5
3%
 
Total votes: 145

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Arntzen
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Re: Best EE Player Of All Time!?!

Post by Arntzen »

seizmic wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:54 pm

You didn't outright say otherwise in reference to 04 krass vs 06 krass but it's heavily implied, yes. You talk about "prior to 06" and "04 Krass" which are specific time frames.
I did not imply this. I said "If you're talking about before 2006 or something" and then went on to explain I'm speaking of the present, not that time.
seizmic wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:54 pm
@returning experts...how long did it take you consistently playing to become as good as you are now? You think an expert coming back after 6-14 years is going to be anywhere close to what they were? So many things could have happened in that time frame too, people actually age in that timespan, you lose a % of brain cells every single year, reaction speed drops, motivation, emotional aspects etc etc
I do not expect a returning expert player who hasn't played forever to play as they did at their peak. Now you can say that I implied this all you want, but I never said this. I agree with what you're saying about reaction speed and motivation.
My point about returning players is this: Practically nobody coming back is able to compete, even the ones that stay and plays for months. This speaks against the notion that these old timers played at a much higher level than the current players. Krass in practically every set is an exception to this when he came back (I would argue that this has a lot to do with him continuing to play RTS games while being gone from EE). Co Death is an exception to this in P2S and P2N. BGC (Chinese player) is an exception to this liga.
seizmic wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:54 pm
You simply can't use that as accurate proof of anything.

In fact, I think I played for two days in 2014 after not playing competitively since 06 and only having a handful of games in 2012. I lost 3-2 to Krass in mid sh 1v1s. I 1v1'd out of pure boredom, Krass had legitimate motivation to beat me. By all rights he should have utterly crushed me, don't you agree?
Krass came back to EE in October 2013 (I know this because at the time I took screens of almost all games I played or observed). And I think he left the same month, so that wasn't exactly a long period back. At that time he wasn't interested in 1v1s, and just chilled with team games. I do not recall him playing anything at all from then until 2016 when he returned a second time. It's possible you played him in 2014, but if so then he was practically as rusty as you were. I'm curious, do you remember what name he used?
It is not until summer 2016 when he returned properly and that's when I wrote this:
Arntzen wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:35 pm
OK! One ticket to the krass hype train..

Best I've seen.
In 2016 he said the skill level was the highest he's ever experienced and that it had increased since last time (2013). When he returned again early this year he once again said the skill level had increased.

seizmic wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:54 pm
Either way, can we agree with this:

Even IF the era is of higher calibre today, deciding who the undisputed best player of EE history is an exercise in futility and the effort spent would be better put into actually discussing many different players and what made them stand out above their peers? Along with the games rich online competitive history.
I think it's an interesting discussion even though I admit we'll probably never reach a conclusion we'll all agree with. I also think it'd be an interesting topic/thread to talk about EE's competitive history, but I don't see how these two topics are mutually exclusive.
seizmic wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:54 pm
For me, Icestorm is the the best of all time and he stopped his dominant 1v1 reign in early 05 in order to strengthen the community and build a great culture of competitive 4v4 games, which he did, brilliantly and we all owe him our thanks for keeping the game going as long as it has, I promise you without him there would be even less players than there currently are. That transcends 1v1s, for me, which he paid his dues in any way.
Him, and a long line of other players have done tons to keep this game going.
seizmic wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:54 pm
You haven't addressed my issue with how people like you and Witchking conduct yourselves in relation to EEs player lineage either, compared to other players that were at the top echelon of the games competitive scene and never once felt the need to claim their era is superior to the previous experts of the past who played and dominated but are no longer active.

If I come across like a prick, it's not personal, it's just me but I'm not trying to troll/insult you.
I guess you're refering to this:
seizmic wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:20 pm
I learned all of my info and knowledge in 2006 of the previous best players off Icestorm and he will tell you, as dominant as I was in 1v1s, I never disrespected the previous best players who weren't around anymore by claiming I could beat them or my era is more competitive...which is in direct contrast to you and Witchking (who I fucking trained, by the way) who sit here disrespecting the games lineage and prominent players in an attempt to bolster your claims of superiority. It's not how the truly best players of present eras conduct themselves.

That shit speaks volumes to me.
What you're saying here is the least charitable take on me and Dave I can think of. Dave saying that based on what he's seen he thinks the level of today's best is higher. At the same time when talking about all setts players he put Lion and Goldeneye on his list of 4, and both of them haven't played in a very long time. Goldeneye stayed the longest and he quit late 2010 I believe.
I think he huge factor contributing to the skill level to rise simply comes from the number of games we've had. There is no doubt in my mind that older players if they stayed would not only follow this rise in skill, but I'm sure if we had more players the skill level would've risen even higher.
If you think we're being disrespectful I think you're reading into something that's not there.
A Good Place to Start: viewtopic.php?f=75&t=3884
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Arntzen
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Re: Best EE Player Of All Time!?!

Post by Arntzen »

Icestorm2 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:10 pm

I'd say we have a difference of opinion when it comes to the best players of that time frame, I knew the eec players mostly from team games and AoC. Some were top players in 1v1s (though never the best), but like Lion they weren't nearly as strong in team games. Buttfreek came close to beating Goldeneye and Nevermind by himself in a 2v2 tournament when his ally had intentionally trolled him, in a full 4v4 he was much more valuable to a team than either.
Wait, what time frame are you speaking of?
I said Krass surpassed Goldeneye before he left. This is Late 2010 if I remember correctly. I do not remember buttfreak or nevermind playing at this time so we're probably not speaking of the same era.
Icestorm2 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:10 pm
As far as how Seizmic measures up to the best player of 2003, I can only speak for mid that far back(I could speak for Indy too, but I'd be comparing him to a glitcher): I think his expan cav/ballistas could beat him fairly often, I had beaten him with a similar setup during one of the last games I played with him. How motivated he was to play at the time I don't know, he seemed a step behind his usual self and was more concerned with chatting during the game, or how he'd adapted to that combination over a series of games I don't know either--it was something fairly new and for a while unique to me. However, I think the game would be decided by the strength of their style of play rather than one being clearly superior to the other.
Am I understanding you correctly: You're saying peak Seizmic (when he was at his very best) against the best Mid player in 2003, these games would be decided on strength of style rather than one being clearly superior. So they were very similarly skilled? How did you reach this conclusion?
A Good Place to Start: viewtopic.php?f=75&t=3884
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seizmic
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Re: Best EE Player Of All Time!?!

Post by seizmic »

I'll give your post a just reply after a needed nap, also, my mistake it was Summer 2016 I played Krass, not 2014. My bad.

I lost to Lavanger, too.

Icestorm2
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Re: Best EE Player Of All Time!?!

Post by Icestorm2 »

Arntzen wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:10 pm
Icestorm2 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:10 pm

I'd say we have a difference of opinion when it comes to the best players of that time frame, I knew the eec players mostly from team games and AoC. Some were top players in 1v1s (though never the best), but like Lion they weren't nearly as strong in team games. Buttfreek came close to beating Goldeneye and Nevermind by himself in a 2v2 tournament when his ally had intentionally trolled him, in a full 4v4 he was much more valuable to a team than either.
Wait, what time frame are you speaking of?
I said Krass surpassed Goldeneye before he left. This is Late 2010 if I remember correctly. I do not remember buttfreak or nevermind playing at this time so we're probably not speaking of the same era.
Icestorm2 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:10 pm
As far as how Seizmic measures up to the best player of 2003, I can only speak for mid that far back(I could speak for Indy too, but I'd be comparing him to a glitcher): I think his expan cav/ballistas could beat him fairly often, I had beaten him with a similar setup during one of the last games I played with him. How motivated he was to play at the time I don't know, he seemed a step behind his usual self and was more concerned with chatting during the game, or how he'd adapted to that combination over a series of games I don't know either--it was something fairly new and for a while unique to me. However, I think the game would be decided by the strength of their style of play rather than one being clearly superior to the other.
Am I understanding you correctly: You're saying peak Seizmic (when he was at his very best) against the best Mid player in 2003, these games would be decided on strength of style rather than one being clearly superior. So they were very similarly skilled? How did you reach this conclusion?
I'm speaking of 2006-2008, never played with Goldeneye after Spring 2008, or Krass at all.
Edit: I did play with him later that year in some Mod TL games.

My conclusion is based on my intuition and experience with the players in question. It's not really a question of style, each of them could theory-craft and adapt to the others play-style. In a 1v1, enough games might favor one play over the other, but in a 4v4 whichever won would be a matter of context.

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