Since you obviously didnt understand what I said, read my answers again. If you still dont understand, then I'll try to expain it even further.AEnima wrote:Kazter, I don't even know who you are, but that was a pretty ignorant statement. I played in the most "expert" of mid games for my whole EE career, and expan was widely used lol.
GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
Ok since you're choosing to be an arrogant prick for virtually no reason I'll give you a layout of what you said, and a layout of my response.Kazter wrote:Guess I was not clear. Expert players will use the strongest strategies to win. Expan is weak in 4v4, therefor will not be used by experts in a game with only experts.
HOWEVER expert players can get away with pretty much everything against lower skilled players. Expert Mid sh is just like eec Mid sh but on stupid large map size.
You said:
Experts wouldn't use Expansionism in a 4v4 (Dead wrong, see my previous response, I have no idea who you are, and I played expert Mid for years, therefore, you did not. And the notion that Experts wouldn't use Expan in a 4v4 is pretty absurd.)
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
First of all. I hope you see the difference between a 4v4 Expert game and a Expert in a game.
Then I'll state that some strategies are weaker then others. I will also state that slutcivs are stronger then expancivs in 4v4.
Now my first statement In a previous reply on this post was: You will never see anything else then slutcivs in a Expert 4v4 Mid sh aoc game.
Reason for this is simply that experts wud not use a bad Civ/strategy in a 4v4 expert game.
Then I'll state that some strategies are weaker then others. I will also state that slutcivs are stronger then expancivs in 4v4.
Now my first statement In a previous reply on this post was: You will never see anything else then slutcivs in a Expert 4v4 Mid sh aoc game.
Reason for this is simply that experts wud not use a bad Civ/strategy in a 4v4 expert game.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
I hope you realize that im referring to a few years ago were there were 8 EXPERTS in a Mid SH expert game. And it was rare to see a slut rush, because quite frankly they just didn't work on Large 4v4, people were good enough to combat them. You clearly have never played in an expert mid game on AoC.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
I dont know how to explain this better. Maybe someone else can take over. Or I'm wrong and expancivs are better then slutcivs in 4v4.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
2 equal players in a 1v1 the one without expand will win in the first game minutes.
You cannot make another post so soon after your last.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
If you are in a room full of very skilled players that know how to use most all of the strategies, then an expansionism civ can be played just as good as a non-expansionism civ. I prefer slut civs but I've beaten some very, very good slut rushes with an expansionism civ. I would consider my skills at those times equivalent to my opponent.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
You are wrong, like I said, I don't think you've ever been a part of a Mid SH expert game. And you've been using the word "then" incorrectly for a while.Kazter wrote:I dont know how to explain this better. Maybe someone else can take over. Or I'm wrong and expancivs are better then slutcivs in 4v4.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
Actually if I remember correctly a few years ago ( Prolly about 5 or 6 or so id say.) the Mid sh players from EEC came over to AoC and played the AoC Mid sh experts and lost pretty bad. Slut civs vs Expansionism and other civ powers. I have nothing to gain from this topic because I didnt play in the game at all.
Im not trolling I actually remember this. I forget who played in the game, but i was actually shocked when I had orginally heard of this. The good Mid Sh Aoc players dont play anymore, so its impossible to compare now. But countless peeps from Reg EE came over and lost horribly with their "slut " civs. In fact, I think it was the whole clan of Lusitania vs Saurerkraut, and Saurerkraut owned. I dont think anyone from that era is around still, moslty because of the truely abusive mods and admins.
Think what you want, but i looked for the mpa network forum thread on this, and its no longer online. The main reason why slut rushing doesnt work is because of the map size. Medium map 4v4 is alot different than Large 4v4.
And what ghost recently said is exactly true. Having expansionism is only gonna increase ones economy and put them so much further ahead. Two equally skilled players were to play a 1vs1 of CA vs CA one with expansionism and one without, all things being equal, the Expansionism player is gonna win. 3 TCs pumping literally constant cits compared to 2 and you initially start behind. Then can keep up CA count too.
Im not saying AoC mid sh players were better than EEC middle players. All im saying is that an abusive power of expanision shouldnt be overlook. In fact I've always thought EEC players were more skilled than AoC players.
Im not trolling I actually remember this. I forget who played in the game, but i was actually shocked when I had orginally heard of this. The good Mid Sh Aoc players dont play anymore, so its impossible to compare now. But countless peeps from Reg EE came over and lost horribly with their "slut " civs. In fact, I think it was the whole clan of Lusitania vs Saurerkraut, and Saurerkraut owned. I dont think anyone from that era is around still, moslty because of the truely abusive mods and admins.
Think what you want, but i looked for the mpa network forum thread on this, and its no longer online. The main reason why slut rushing doesnt work is because of the map size. Medium map 4v4 is alot different than Large 4v4.
And what ghost recently said is exactly true. Having expansionism is only gonna increase ones economy and put them so much further ahead. Two equally skilled players were to play a 1vs1 of CA vs CA one with expansionism and one without, all things being equal, the Expansionism player is gonna win. 3 TCs pumping literally constant cits compared to 2 and you initially start behind. Then can keep up CA count too.
Im not saying AoC mid sh players were better than EEC middle players. All im saying is that an abusive power of expanision shouldnt be overlook. In fact I've always thought EEC players were more skilled than AoC players.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
YouDrHouseMd wrote:I dont think anyone from that era is around still, moslty because of the truely abusive mods and admins.
Me
Btw, the point of this topic is so we can discuss how to lure the GR people here.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
Take for example my CA vs CA example.
You do the typical no exp build, 1 gold mine with TC. Now you have about 15 cits. You have 800 food from two TC. Now lets say niether gathers food and just uses the 800 food for cits.
A cit takes about 20-30 seconds to build. So lets use 30 seconds. And lets assume that there is a cit being produced equally from both. IE 400 food being used from each TC. This would mean 8 per TC. this would take about a total 2 Cits per min per TC. So in four mins the "slut" player would have 31 cits. (20 initial - 5 for pop = 15. 15 +16=31)
Now using the same assumptions as previously noted we calculate how long it takes for the exp player to use his 800 food. Now do a typical exp build. Normally 3 Tcs, 2 either on gold, or 1 gold and 1 forage. 3 Tcs pumping 6 Cits a min is gonna use 800 food in about 3 mins. He then would have 36 cits a minute before the "slut" player would have 31.
Expansionism is gay but is alot better.
You do the typical no exp build, 1 gold mine with TC. Now you have about 15 cits. You have 800 food from two TC. Now lets say niether gathers food and just uses the 800 food for cits.
A cit takes about 20-30 seconds to build. So lets use 30 seconds. And lets assume that there is a cit being produced equally from both. IE 400 food being used from each TC. This would mean 8 per TC. this would take about a total 2 Cits per min per TC. So in four mins the "slut" player would have 31 cits. (20 initial - 5 for pop = 15. 15 +16=31)
Now using the same assumptions as previously noted we calculate how long it takes for the exp player to use his 800 food. Now do a typical exp build. Normally 3 Tcs, 2 either on gold, or 1 gold and 1 forage. 3 Tcs pumping 6 Cits a min is gonna use 800 food in about 3 mins. He then would have 36 cits a minute before the "slut" player would have 31.
Expansionism is gay but is alot better.
Last edited by DrHouseMd on Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
That would a great idea. Although I dont think it will work. Most people on GR are retarded and dont know how to get lobby working and how to switch back and forth. They dont understand port forwarding ect ect. Its a noble effort but it wont work.AEnima wrote:YouDrHouseMd wrote:I dont think anyone from that era is around still, moslty because of the truely abusive mods and admins.
Me
Btw, the point of this topic is so we can discuss how to lure the GR people here.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
Well as much as u have a good example there BC expansionism cost alot of civ points and I remember krass going through an aoc ladder pretty much unbeaten using just a ca slut civ cause nobody would sword slut against him.
Anyway to 4v4 it is true most experts in middle aoc used exp even on wing but this is more or so because they didn't know how to perform a slut well, and even less how to boom without exp. On wing the sword slut will normally win, and u can ask dave (witchking) he went from sword exp to sword slut on wing. As for pocket most would think u get a great eco from doing the exp civs and while that is true, your prime time with exp is from 15-30f11 where u're ahead of the non exp player. Once you exceed this timeframe everybody will have hit pop cap and exp is now 25 civ points down the trash bin. Most aoc expert mid players never really realised this I guess since when they saw u were going non exp civs they'd always think "oh he's slut" and thought they'd automatically win late game since booming without exp is somehow impossible.
I do remember some old MPA forum threads and I especially remember the one where they desperately tried to prove eC were cheaters cause their bests (vanguard clan if I remember correctly) had just lost to eC and eC used all slut civs. So story goes both ways BC.
With higher pop caps though exp is super.
Anyway to 4v4 it is true most experts in middle aoc used exp even on wing but this is more or so because they didn't know how to perform a slut well, and even less how to boom without exp. On wing the sword slut will normally win, and u can ask dave (witchking) he went from sword exp to sword slut on wing. As for pocket most would think u get a great eco from doing the exp civs and while that is true, your prime time with exp is from 15-30f11 where u're ahead of the non exp player. Once you exceed this timeframe everybody will have hit pop cap and exp is now 25 civ points down the trash bin. Most aoc expert mid players never really realised this I guess since when they saw u were going non exp civs they'd always think "oh he's slut" and thought they'd automatically win late game since booming without exp is somehow impossible.
I do remember some old MPA forum threads and I especially remember the one where they desperately tried to prove eC were cheaters cause their bests (vanguard clan if I remember correctly) had just lost to eC and eC used all slut civs. So story goes both ways BC.
With higher pop caps though exp is super.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
I never said it didnt dood. I dont think eC was around when the "good" mid sh aoc players were there. Im not talking thor or yankee, they were subpar players at best back then.Captain Nemo wrote:Well as much as u have a good example there BC expansionism cost alot of civ points and I remember krass going through an aoc ladder pretty much unbeaten using just a ca slut civ cause nobody would sword slut against him.
Anyway to 4v4 it is true most experts in middle aoc used exp even on wing but this is more or so because they didn't know how to perform a slut well, and even less how to boom without exp. On wing the sword slut will normally win, and u can ask dave (witchking) he went from sword exp to sword slut on wing. As for pocket most would think u get a great eco from doing the exp civs and while that is true, your prime time with exp is from 15-30f11 where u're ahead of the non exp player. Once you exceed this timeframe everybody will have hit pop cap and exp is now 25 civ points down the trash bin. Most aoc expert mid players never really realised this I guess since when they saw u were going non exp civs they'd always think "oh he's slut" and thought they'd automatically win late game since booming without exp is somehow impossible.
I do remember some old MPA forum threads and I especially remember the one where they desperately tried to prove eC were cheaters cause their bests (vanguard clan if I remember correctly) had just lost to eC and eC used all slut civs. So story goes both ways BC.
With higher pop caps though exp is super.
Alot of the top players on Aoc back in the day played super gay, like medium map for 1vs1. Krass's slut CA civ would die to an engima style player pretty hard. Dave is good, but i dont remember him playing AoC middle back when I was on it man. And if he did, he wasnt very good back then. Remember this like 5-6 years ago. Hardly anyone that plays now played then.
Comparing eC to subpar mid sh players is foolish. And to be honest, by the time I got to the AoC mid scene, the best players were in the process of leaving anyways.
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Re: GR(Game Ranger) is god awful.
Prolly the best person to ask is calv. But I doubt its the real calv though.
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