Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

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Captain Nemo
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Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by Captain Nemo »

Im a little bored so thought I'd make this top 10 list of the best mod dm'ers in my time on ee.
Comments to my list are very welcome, but don't expect me to change it. I also encourrage u to post ur own list!

I use a couple of terms u may not be familiar with so thought I'd just explain them here:

Base hug:
Ghost may have explained this earlier but can't find his post. It's basically a defensive (though some people choose to attack just to keep enemy artillery fire out) strategy where you have a mixture of ground units in a base with aa houses hospitals towers barracks siege fac's etc etc all over. You use the buildings, not only for their effects (like aa shoots air etc), but also to draw some fire from enemy units to your buildings rather than ur units. Istar Gates is commenly used with this strategy.

Adaption:
Your ability to adapt to a situation. A simply example could be your opponent doing all M1, and u have a normal base hug civs. Instead of getting alot of snipers you will of course swap to more AT, zooks, leopards, and artillery. It's not just about your unit combinations though, it's also by the way you handle your army. Should u play it defensive or attack? Do you need to spread out very wide or should u keep units a little close? In a 4v4 game it's also about what happens on the other side, should you help them if they're failing or try to completely kill your enemy. All this "generel" ee understanding I put in this catagory.

The list:

1 - Energy
Pros: Energy has an extremely fast boom/expand. The artillery micro is beyond expert, and he has some of the best macro. He is (almost) as strong on wing as in a pocket, but where he is truely deadly is in a 2v2 medium map. His ability to both rush, boom and do base hug VERY well, makes him very strong.
Cons: Somehow stopped liking playing competively. I haven't seen Energy go full out for years, but when he did, he was the best. He was actually best before he became known as Energy. Somehow chose never to use fighters cause he doesn't like the unit and wants the game to go a cirtain way which is a weakness (but one he chooses to have).
Best Feature: Expansion

2 - Dave
Pros: I put Dave ahead of blackswarm by an inch. Dave has the best base hug I've seen in my time, and it seems as if nothing can really take him down. He's a great expander, great boomer, and has super micro.
Cons: Very few weaknesses to point out here, but if I was to mention one it's his rush which isn't as deadly as u might have hoped.
Best Feature: Base hug

3 - Blackswarm
Pros: Blackswarm has, like Dave, an extremely good base hug. It's a little different from Dave's as swarm likes to kill his opponents faster and often rushes while he expands or as u might say: mod dm slide. Blackswarm has extremely good macro, and in lategame he is truely deadly!
Cons: I would have to put Adaption here. Sometimes swarm keeps the rush going for too long and doesn't have enough ress left to make a fast boom. Too open to zookrushes, and tankrushes.
Best Feature: Macro

4 - Goldeneye
Pros: The first allsett player to join this list. Goldeneye is extremely good in adaption and a truely extraordinary teamplayer. His 1 strategy somehow resists any kind of rush you could think of, and he keeps a good boom to back it up. In pocket is fighterskills are, thx to tl/sh, much better than most mod dm'ers. Forgot to mention the awsome micro.
Cons: Very predictable as he only uses one wing strategy and one pocket. Rarely rushes, which is also something he chooses to avoid as he likes late game.
Best Feature: Adaption

5 - Zeus
Pros: Zeus has an unknown range of rush strategies which makes him impossible to predict (other than he rushes). I know very few people that he wasn't able to kill wing vs wing. His macro and teamplay was also top class.
Cons: Booming would be zeus's great problem. I saw from games that he was infact able to do it well and play good late game, but rarely did so. Zeus never got the hang of expanding aa, which made him very dependent on a pocket willing to mass him fighters.
Best Feature: Rush Diversity

6 - Omega
Pros: Extremely well playing in lategame due to good game knowledge and superb micro. Very good boom, expansion, and teamplayer, which also makes him great in adaption.
Cons: I'd have to put base hug here, as Omega's base hug is very open for zookrushes, though it's very good vs everything else. Generally early game seems to be Omega's weakness. Lack of activity
Best Feature: Late game performance.

7 - Krass
Pros: Great varity of strategies, always seeking new ways. Very good fightercontrol like goldeneye, and generally superb micro. Great 1v1 player with good fighter/ground strategies.
Cons: Krass tends to focus too much on one thing at a time, but does this one thing to perfection though. Often the macro and overall teamplay suffers from this, as krass likes to take out his direct opponent and close his eyes to the rest of the team.
Best Feature: Micro

8 - Matrix
Pros: Energy's trainee surely became a deadly wing player. Matrix would have a super fast rush backed up with very good aa expansion, much like energy would do it.
Cons: I haven't played much vs matrix, but he often forgot to back his fast expansion up with a good boom. Snipers were very useful when playing his rush.
Best Feature: Air defense

9 - Ghost
Pros: My knowledge of ghost is also limited. Ghost has a good base hug with very good micro. His late games is also very good, and it can be almost impossible to get through where his hero is.
Cons: Im unaware of ghost's ability to perform a rush strategy, but Im aware that his normal base hug is vulnerable to zookrushes. Ghost is in many ways like Omega, and I would again put the beginning of a game in this block
Best Feature: Micro

10 - Hurricane
Pros: Hurricane was one of the top pocketplayers with very good fighter and bomber mix with super fast expansion and great eco. On wing he would have a good mix of ground units, good macro, and again with a good and fast expansion.
Cons: Hurricane's micro wasn't quite as impressive as the rest of his skills, and he his basehug wasn't his strongest feature.
Best Feature: Pocket play

Note: This is my list and everything written has an invisible IMO added ;)

A few players I was unable to rate (but possible top10) due to lack of activity:

Epic - definitely top ten but no idea where to place him as I haven't seem him play enough.
Phobia - I have seen phobia play very little, but I was very impressed from how little dm he has done.
Capt - Seen him play a couple of times or so, and heard from many of the dm'ers that he was great.

Special thanks to the people who helped me get better (mostly by playing against them):

Superfly, letZ fetZ, Energy, surfer, falkonetti, Zealot, Blackswarm.
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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by peow130 »

Who gives a shit, really?
They PLAYED. They no longer play. No need to brown nose anymore.
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ben55
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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by ben55 »

What is wrong with recognition and nostalgia? I like reading these lists and other people's thoughts. I wish everyone wasn't so sensitive and/or immature about who is better though, so we would see more lists like these. As long as it is well thought out and presented in a non negative way. I'm all for posts like these.

PS: Also thanks Nemo it means a lot coming from someone like you that you think I have potential in Mod DM to be possibly on the same list/post as the people you mentioned and yourself included.
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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by Ghost »

Link to post on base hug, FYI:
viewtopic.php?p=4656#p4656

Though I might not agree with everything in your list, you are entitled to your opinion, which is well-rounded for the most part. I'm not even totally sure that I'd put myself in the top 10 since Mod DM was one of the last settings that added to my resume (and generally this was the point in time when I stopped putting any effort into games).

And it may not be my favorite thing to do, but I assure you I can rush. It really depends on my motivation and the team's strategy. I like to bust it out unexpectedly in consecutive games, so that's probably why you've never seen me rush.
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SlipKnoT
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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by SlipKnoT »

Love these types of posts. Pity mod dm never rly became a sett of mine other than a few games
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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by simple_faith »

IMO me and peow should be in that list, we are the best Mod F11 45 Islands player in AoC, doesn't that count as MOD DM! :(
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Captain Nemo
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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by Captain Nemo »

Ghost wrote:Link to post on base hug, FYI:
viewtopic.php?p=4656#p4656

Though I might not agree with everything in your list, you are entitled to your opinion, which is well-rounded for the most part. I'm not even totally sure that I'd put myself in the top 10 since Mod DM was one of the last settings that added to my resume (and generally this was the point in time when I stopped putting any effort into games).

And it may not be my favorite thing to do, but I assure you I can rush. It really depends on my motivation and the team's strategy. I like to bust it out unexpectedly in consecutive games, so that's probably why you've never seen me rush.
Funny when I searched your posts and wrote Base Hug that post didn't pop up.

But anyway I had alot of people concidered for the last spots, and was a tough decision, but I weigh late game performance very highly which is why u made it infront of people like, kirac, marcus, crash, arma. I may even completely have forgotten some people who should be top10 but idk lol. But I think u're a tough adverssary ghost u deserve the 9th spot.

oh btw since u don't agree with everything what is your opinion / list? :)
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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by Ghost »

I'm really not sure what the exact order would be but I would never post without mention of Twisted Bum or Kai who were top overall players in my book, not in just Mod DM but also in every other age DM. Both of them easily top 10. And I won't be able to forget Dude Jade (aka Sniper700), who had a pretty devastating zook rush, though vulnerable if it didn't receive proper support from the pocket. Both him and a few other players like Marcus were also good at Mod DM Islands, which made for some fun games when we decided to switch things up as a refresher.

Personally I never would place Goldeneye at #4 because I thought he wasn't all that good on wing when I played vs. him. On a 4v4 large map and both of us using similar base hug strategies I was able to expand much faster and make very aggressive pushes into him when our fronts eventually met. It wasn't long before I overtook him. I'm not sure if I outmicroed him (didn't seem like I had to), if I had a more effective strategy, or if I just had more solid expansion/building placement/etc.

Krass IMO isn't top 10 because he wasn't ever good at expanding or booming for that matter. I think he was more-so Goldeneye's pet that followed him into Mod DM games. Seemed like he never really learned the sett.

Megs I think is more like a #3 or #4 spot. I think you mentioned that his base hug has a weakness, but I think everyone's base hug has a weak spot. He knows Mod DM in and out. He can perform multiple rush strategies on wing, plays a solid pocket with good fighter control, knows how to bomb effectively, can boom like crazy, and expands like a pro.

In their prime's I'd probably take Swarm over Dave to be my wing since there's been a few times I've beaten Dave myself on wing, but Swarm never plays pocket really so I'd agree with you having Dave edge out Swarm overall since Dave can do a bit more in terms of strategy.

There's really far too many names and it would take ages for me to order them, but you've mentioned quite a bit for me already. I know you haven't seen Wes play much but he was a good overall player, never really had a true strength that made him stand out, but he could play toe to toe with just about anybody.

One thing I thoroughly don't agree with is mentioning Capt, probably because I have some extreme bias on this topic, but I always thought he was just a super douche with a big reputation for cheating (all kinds of it) and horrible team play. When we played games that were hosted by the more casual players, he would pretty much just join to piss us off because he knew we didn't like him and he knew we couldn't kick him from the game. Then, if somehow we ended up in a game he would just fuck off the whole time.
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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by Captain Nemo »

well I did concider some of those u mention there. I never played bum in mod dm, I only heard he was the best so can't mention him. I concidered kai and did not think he was worth top10. Sniper700 I concidered too, and though he was close to making it I didn't think being very good in first 10f11 and then simply just drop dead was enough. Luis's zookrush was just as good as sniper's and he had a much better boom. Marcus also very close to making it, it was between him and hurri on the 10th spot, cause they are very much alike in how they play, both super pockets. I know marcus was good at islands, but with all respect he wasn't ever as good as people like captain snoozey or willi. Reason for this is probably because marcus came too late into mod dm islands.

Some people simply counter others which is why who beats who doesn't always apply. Im not surprised that u could take golden down tbh. I also think though, sniper700 would have much more luck in rushing u than goldeneye, but maybe I just underestimate u because I haven't seen u play much, but well I can only judge from what I've seen. Goldeneye countering myself pretty well is also a reason for placing him so high. Krass I agree is purely 1v1 player, but he was very good at 1v1 too.

Omega was a tricky one and I actually concidered putting him down with epic in the unrated block. Megs is just constantly rusty and if u count from 2004+ he was far from his prime. Still though, he is one of the smartest players and would be a shame not to put him up there. If he should advance though it would be beyond zeus who was a very active factor in mod dm and I think he would take megs out wing vs wing (not in megs prime tho but that was before 2004).

Capt - didn't know the guy from anything from a few games and what others told me.
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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by VoE_CusTomm^ »

I never really played Mod DM, but I got a question.

I just know that especially in the later times like 2007-2010, I heard a lot of your self Nemo...
So either you just didnt want to be arrogant and put your self in...

Or these people have been earlier than your Prime times...

Or what ever I heard has been totally wrong...

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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by Captain Nemo »

Well I don't want to rate myself as for one thing I don't know exactly where I'd put myself and second of all because of The Jante Law which happens to rule too much, and if I rate myself higher than some people think I deserve they're gonna start calling me arrogant or something which would just suck. So theres no point in rating myself
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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by EpIc »

1. Twista Bum 2. Omega 3. Blackswarm 4-10(insert Nemo's list here) lol. KaI was very good but more of a team player. I would prob put him in top 10 but my opinion would be biased I think. I would put nemo in top ten he is far better now than when i played actively or at least i think i didnt get to play to much with him then but from my more recent years games he's def good enough. I think overall DM would look about same KaI would def be up there in overall DM some others like One Man Clan aka OMC. It is hard to remember the other great players.

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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by Samuel »

I like these types of posts too ... by the way you're saying Krass just focuses on one thing at a time ... I wonder if you're implying he's not good at multitasking.

Aside from that, nice post. I think you are the best Mod DM player.

ben55
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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by ben55 »

I think he was implying that Krass would "tunnel vision" his opposing wing/pocket, and forget it is 4v4/3v3.
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Re: Greatest Mod DM'ers 2004-2011

Post by bLaCkSwArM »

The truth of the matter is there isn't a overall top 10, more like a top 5 in no particular order because at some point in a game I have seen all of people's "best" rely on others or somehow a non-mod dmer made a direct impact to the "bests'" losing. The game is always changing, the flow of the game can be altered so quickly by one swift decision, or whether someone uses every resource in some way to attempt to win. All of which at one point wasn't predictable. The same can't be said now considering the small amount of players that play.

Its always been a team game first in which weaknesses are always exploited by the opposition. Even if you base a list on consistency that is still illegitimate considering what I've witnessed and considering all of the factors involved in a game such as your pocket, different game styles, your position on the map, the terrain, mine placement etc, changing variables when often the right adjustments aren't enough. I experienced games throughout the years where I had to carry the "best" and the "weakest" had to carry me. It always depends according to the standards you are basing your criteria. Their is just too much involved to have one generalized list and not to place Mod dmers into categories which I will never take the time to do. Categories such as the best at adapting, the best pocket, the most reliant (at one point tributes were allowed), ingenuity, the eco buff, the best rusher, micro/macroer, the motivator (a simple "we can do this has made all the difference"), leadership, the teacher, those who taught themselves, the best in 1 vs. 1, etc. I have experienced underdogs and non mod dmers defeating the "best." I have taken screen shots :oops: I recall my games and names which I enjoy sharing but I am embarrassed to do so :wink: .

If I had to choose one person, I have him in mind. During my prime I considered him my equal but than again I was a younger arrogant self; we never challenged each other but I'm certain I was more intimidated than he was. He wasn't a team player and if he didn't have it his way or have his pocket he wouldn't play or would blame others, non motivating simply negative. His position can be justified considering even the best can fail if not given the right circumstance, its the overall picture which no one is best at. I played a game while I was still learning and trying for the approval of him and his cohort where I was the saved both of them using motivating words. Even if I could I didn't know the right keys to give but I kept them going by doing my best and telling him not to give up, a game in which we eventually won. This is only one example of where one may be most effecient in one area but lacks in another. You could beat everyone in a 1 vs. 1, hold off to beat 3 great mod dmers in a late game, than suddenly lose to a couple of underdogs in a late game which factors were beyond your control.

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I need to get off this game, the fact that I wrote this tells me so.

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