Cheating in NeoEE

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Arntzen
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Cheating in NeoEE

Post by Arntzen »

Quick introduction about dxm, yukon
dreXmod, often referred to has dxm is a mod made by drex 888 (on youtube) also known as Yukon (username online).
Currently there are three different versions of this mod: the original, dxm2 and dxm3.
These mods have multiple amazing features that I honestly never thought we would see in EE and the job Yukon has done to bring it to life is incredible. Dxm is so popular that dxm2 is part of the default settings in the Community Setup and I believe dxm3 will be part of it in future.
One key feature added in dxm3 is the ability to host ranked games.

Ranked games
As Yukon is the owner and creator of dxm he is in charge of the ranked games. He is capable of handing out bans from Ranked games and have done so on multiple occasions usually in response to players reactions. For example if one player is being extremely toxic and the other players want him to get punished, Yukon have given out a 1 week ban to the toxic player.

Yukon's handling of cheaters so far
For a long time Yukon has claimed there are multiple cheaters in EE, and has accused players in game and in the lobby of cheating. Telling players what they shouldn't do (for example don't pro rush) and when other players have defended the player Yukon is accusing Yukon has responded with "they understand what I mean".
As far as I'm aware only on two occasions have Yukon handled out bans for players he accused of cheating. Lohchan and dVXB7E. Both times after they had used prophets to hurricane Yukon's own boats.
When the first ban happened some players did not like that Yukon basically banned someone without proof and no transparency. The second time Yukon banned a player he accused of abusing map hack he got a bigger backlash and I'm fairly sure there would have been a boycott of Yukon's games if he didn't respond. I even sent him a message on discord saying he should unban the player and that he needs to show proof when banning people.
Shortly after Yukon did provide proof:
cheaters.jpg
cheat explaination.png
cheat explaination2.png
EnergyCube got a technical explanation and said he agrees with Yukon's assessment that the player dVXB7E in fact did cheat.
cheat explain.jpg
Now of course this opened a can of worms that is way bigger than just dVXB7E. As everyone who looked at the picture can see there are multiple players with 1 and 13. Out of the 34 players in that list 7 are using a trainer.

Why hasn't Yukon done anything against the cheaters? Why doesn't he release all the names? I honestly don't know.

Moving forward
This has been said about what's to come:
Cheat moving forward2.png
cheat moving forward.png
Personally I recommend full transparency moving forward. I would like the community to give their opinion about this whole deal and about what can be done better in future. Any personal attacks or name calling will be removed from this discussion so be civil.
A Good Place to Start: viewtopic.php?f=75&t=3884
Click to download: eC Civilization

joey
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Re: Cheating in NeoEE

Post by joey »

Don't even have to waste my time reading this Yukon blacklisted 2 weeks minimum

Locodoco
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Re: Cheating in NeoEE

Post by Locodoco »

The situation is fairly well explained Kazter :thumbsupr:
no cheating/glitching shall be tolerated , and It should be handled with extreme transparency and judgement.

As a weekly player on Yukon's p2n ranked games, I haven't witnessed any suspicious actions from the players mentioned above that have received a ban due to glitching/maphacking (Lohchan and DVX). From the actions that have happened which resulted getting them banned is simply a part of EE gameplay and the method they are doing when it comes to sea storming is the following:

They rush a prophet as p2n pocket, afterwards age up to stone age and make a single transport ship. In order for them to have a perfect storm , they begin with scouting enemys boats with their own fishing boats , then transport the prophet into a location which allows them to storm from and get maximum number of boats. After storming, they transport the prophet into a safe location to refill up its energy and the process repeats its self.

What I can't understand is , why would they do the whole procedure which includes transports and scouting if they use maphack? It doesn't make any sense because judging from their gameplay they basically have done all requirements and its Legit and Ethical and shows no sign of maphacks.

The list that yukon has given to prove that dvx has used some kind of altered version of EE to have FogOfWar deleted for a certain period that cant be detected by save games is kind of not viable to me for the following reasons:

1) I don't understand programming, but since Energycube confirmed that it can be true that the list is detecting altered EE versions then its fair to say Its credible. Question is What does the list represent? Is it a daily-logins data that updates it self whenever a CDKey has logged in and detects if his EE is same as the actual one? Or A list that consists of whole NeoEE player database which have detected a single login of an altered version of EE that never been updated before? and How accurate it is in terms of detecting cheaters , lets say it can be detecting any small change that wont effect the gameplay due to failure while installing a certain game file etc..

2) as the list shows 34 players and 7 of them have different numbers other than 0s, which means there is a huge number of cheaters/trainers per 34 players which is a big ratio and to some extent is hard to believe.

3) Personally, I have never experienced an action where one of the players mentioned above have done something out of ordinary. The fact that they play as an average person which loses quite much despite using an altered EE, is contradicting the purpose of cheating.
pody: eC .. is etc for what ?
_[eC]_Arntzen_: european cunts
pody: ahh .. ok bro
_[eC]_Arntzen_: np
_[eC]_Arntzen_: :)

-Vg- Basilik
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Re: Cheating in NeoEE

Post by -Vg- Basilik »

1. Why does yukon not show all names? I can understand why he doesn't show the CD-Keys (well, he revealed dVX's CD-Key ... I don't know if this is a good idea?) ... but if he has a safe method to see if someone is a chater. Why would you not reveal them? Alone in this list there are 6 more people ... let us know who it is!

2. I'm still struggling with the idea that yukon's mod isn't some form of "cheating". He modified the game in some ways to his liking. Not everyone has access to the latest mod (e.g. for fast loading of civilizations). If you don't use his mod, maybe because you haven't even heard of it, you're at a huge disadvantage compared to someone who does. Maybe you don't trust yukon either and don't want to install his software. To be honest, I'm not sure myself anymore when he gets so many details I didn't even know about (whether you're changing your game with a program).

3. For my part, I don't know what other possibilities yukon has. Maybe he currently sees a lot more than the "normal" player? Granted, that's speculation, but one has to take it into consideration (cue: hostile chat)

4. The only thing I appreciate (in a way) about yukon's mod is the zoom. Otherwise the game would not have been playable for me. However, I think the zoom should have been limited. I see for myself what a huge advantage a high(er) zoom is. Everything else that comes with it, such as the statistics (with epochs) in the game, the fast loading of the civilization, ranks, etc. is simply not wanted by the developers of the game. I think they knew very well what they were doing.

>Heros<=Eminem*
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Re: Cheating in NeoEE

Post by >Heros<=Eminem* »

Kazter gives a fairly good summary of the situation here, however, I would like to add my detailed perspective on Yukon's approach to cheating, certain prophet uses and the bans of dVX7BE and LohChan, as I was there during most of these incidents.

My perspective is very critical of Yukon's administration on these issues, so before I get into it, let me just clarify that I do acknowledge and appreciate the passion and commitment Yukon has had to EE both as a developer and a consistent host. Without him, it is very likely this game would be less active. However my issue against him isn't about his commitment to EE but it is skepticism about his judgement and the lack of consistency and clarity he has shown over the past few months in relation to these incidents.

So first all it is important to know that yukon has always had an agenda against certain prophet usage in his pre games(almost always when it is done to him or his teammate in a way that directly affects him), even long before he began to accuse dVX or Lohchan of trainer use. I can recall clearly incidents from months to even over a year ago, and I am sure other regular players such as Panda, Lance, Locodoco and Blade can also confirm this, incidents when a player(including myself) have done a prophet rush as pocket and quaked yukon's base in a totally legitimate manner, and his responses included, "stop that glitch", "quaking unexplored base is glitch". His logical fallacy being that we had to explore his base in order to attempt to send a prophet towards him, when in most cases with a prophet rush it is just the obvious route to first attack the wing and when possible to quake him or otherwise move past the wing to attack the pocket. This issue died out after the -notrib mod was introduced, but it remains an incident which I personally experienced from yukon, which makes me skeptical of him when he accuses others of glitch. The lack of logic he presented in those cases, and his stubbornness to back down his stance, regardless of how many times myself or panda explained to him what we are doing was simply mindblowing. We even attempted to get him to set a consistent ruling on prophet usage but he never attempted to do this but instead carried on with an inconsistent, illogical patterns of accusation and blaming on players who did prophet rushes, with the accusations largely limited to when he is the victim, and other instances being totally ignored.

Fast forward to the -notrib era and an era now where yukon begins to play as pocket in 4v4s, the agenda against prophet rushes quaking wing disappears, but now yukon has a new agenda against people who are storming HIS fishboats as an enemy pocket with the use of transports and/or fishboat group speed. It is very important to understand how specific and biased this agenda is, as in both instances, yukon never cared about the incidents until he is directly the victim of it. Initially, he never accused the ones doing the storming of cheating but just accused them of "ruining the game, being "scared to play normally" etc. As Locodoco pointed out above, the tactic used in this storming was a very viable and legitimate tactic done by pocket players. It was clear that yukon's irritation of this prophet usage to storm the sea with group speed of fisboats came as a result of his inability to counter or mitigate the effects of this strategy, something which most of us other players didnt have an issue doing. It was quite obvious to always play aggressive against a player who does such a strategy such as lohchan or dVX7BE. I myself had also used this strategy on the rare occasion successfully, without the use of any trainer or cheat.

Eventually, lohchan began to repeat this strategy almost every game, especially when he was against yukon, a matchup that occured frequently when yukon began playing pocket more often, as they had similar scores. It was here when yukon began to change his tone towards their actions and around 3 months ago began threatening to ban lohchan. When players such as myself, Death and others protested against this as being power abuse for a while, yukon then changed his narrative dramatically to now claiming that lohchan was using a trainer and after one game where I personally asked lohchan as my pocket to storm yukon depsite yukon's threat, lohchan was temporarily banned for maphack trainer use(cheating).

This really came as a shock to us, due to : 1) the sudden change in narrative from yukon on what it was that lohchan was doing wrong after a long time, 2) the long standing personal agenda yukon had against such prophet usage ONLY when he was the victim, 3) 0 evidence presented to prove that lohchan did infact cheat, 4) The fact that for months lohchan had applied this strategy and either as teammate or opponent, none of us ever found his movements/methods suspicious, except for yukon who was the only one suffering to the strategy. Therefore, we were all extremely skeptical of this claim, as all logic indicated, he just came to the tipping point of tolerating storming from lohchan, as he would lose to it at an almost 100% rate.
A very important factor here as I mentioned many times in this post, is that Yukon NEVER cared about LohChan storming other players, before, during and now even after the incident when he banned him for trainer use. For instance, even this Sunday, when yukon went onto ban dVX7BE for the same reason, on that same day lohchan had done this same strategy multiple times(can be seen in yukon's stream), specifically against Zamin and Alsaad in one game when he was ON YUKON's TEAM and against Allison and Pabel in another game when he was ON YUKON's TEAM, and conveniently once again, yukon did not take any action, not even mention a word of warning towards lohchan, but all of us pre players are aware, that yukon's stance to lohchan doing this strategy against him is a 2nd ban.

Now in light of the supposed "evidence" that yukon presented us this week, regarding dVX and lohchan trainer use, which in my opinion is not confirmatory as it once again depends on yukon's honesty which at this point I am extremely skeptical of for the above mentioned reasons. However, let us just hypothesize that it is an accurate report, then in this case, it means that Yukon has been aware of cheating in his games, yet only punishes it when he is the direct victim, simply reference his stream on the 24th of April(Sunday) for the evidence for this. Essentially, Lohchan could have with the use of trainer, stormed zamin and alsaad, leading to him winning a game with the aid of cheats, and yukon took 0 action, not even a warning to lohchan or even an indication to the victims(zamin and alsaad) of what happened to them. So even in the event if we are to believe what yukon is saying, there still is a gross level of incompetence as an administrator of the ranked system and even simply as a host or fellow player, that he allows cheaters to go unpunished when he is not directly affected by their actions. The only other scenario, is that they are infact not cheating and he has made this data up as "evidence". OR the third scenario is that he is so braindead that he is unaware, lohchan has been storming on his team for the past 2 months(LIKE REALLY? LOL).

In conclusion, any scenario here does not paint yukon in good light, I personally am very skeptical that there is any truth to his claims that these 2 players are cheating, and that its just an agenda he has had against such prophet usage for the longest time, as it affects his game significantly. However even if he is telling the truth, there is still great incompetence from him. Therefore my stance is to boycott yukon's games until he issues insight to the truth which addresses either scenario, along with an apology and intended change in his approach to administration of games as the ranked admin.

Panda
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Re: Cheating in NeoEE

Post by Panda »

Everything has already been said above by eminem and kazter, I want to look towards the solution.

If yukon is indeed correct and all his data is accurate along with his claims of trainer users then I think now yukon or whoever takes charge from here must ban anyone who tries to modify their EE at any point before or during the game. Bans should be temporary followed by permanent ones if they don't learn. We don't want to play against trainer users at all. What yukon said to us is that he only bans people if they abuse the trainers, he for whatever reason does not simply ban anyone with the trainers as he deems it not a good reason which is laughable. So trainer usage must be simply eliminated. And those who have used it (the names that were hidden) should be revealed because 1. they deserve to be exposed 2. We need to know who they are as we may have been victims of their actions. I mean it was ok to reveal 2 names that directly impacted yukon in games but its not ok to reveal the rest? make it make sense.

I don't think yukon is lying personally, i think either he is right or his data is inaccurate which leads him to believe certain people are cheating. If that is the case then we need better anti-cheat as energy has said he will develop soon. If yukon has lied about all this "evidence" then regardless of how much he has done for the game, its a shameful act and deserves some action against it.
I hope that's not the case as I admire him a lot for what he has done and wouldn't wish for such an outcome.

Samuel
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Re: Cheating in NeoEE

Post by Samuel »

Personally I don't see cheating as a big enough issue, since cheaters almost always belong to the lower-skilled part of the spectrum.

I'd rather not run the risk of seeing EE being USSRed with players being called to be cheaters when they are not, and then banned over a system which seems to show very little transparency.

_DavE_
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Re: Cheating in NeoEE

Post by _DavE_ »

Funny you should mention Yukon complaining about storming his boats Eminem, because for months (back when I played) Yukon constantly cried if I were to land on his island during an isles games, to the point where he would instantly drop and then blame ME for ruining the game simply because he cannot wall properly.

My views on yukon don't need to be mentioned as everybody knows. Some may think it's biased etc.

However, what I will say, your silence on these issues yukon, will forever speak louder than any words you can say.

It's time you gave the community what they are asking for and hold yourself accountable.

Jabalania
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Re: Cheating in NeoEE

Post by Jabalania »

>Heros<=Eminem* wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:03 pm
Therefore my stance is to boycott yukon's games until he issues insight to the truth which addresses either scenario, along with an apology and intended change in his approach to administration of games as the ranked admin.
Image

:thumbsupl: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :thumbsupl:

>Heros<=Eminem*
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Re: Cheating in NeoEE

Post by >Heros<=Eminem* »

Jabalania wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:44 am
>Heros<=Eminem* wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:03 pm
Therefore my stance is to boycott yukon's games until he issues insight to the truth which addresses either scenario, along with an apology and intended change in his approach to administration of games as the ranked admin.
Image

:thumbsupl: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :thumbsupl:
Others weren't interested in boycotting, and lack of alternative host, so it became pointless to boycott when it wont impact yukon in any way

Jabalania
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Re: Cheating in NeoEE

Post by Jabalania »

So yukon basically do whatever he wants? Of course, not everyone goes along with a boycott. It is important to set an example and each individual helps with this. But apparently that's not possible. Better a few (bad) games with a randomly banning host than less (good) games with sane people. Heck, that's why I quit months ago. All the best anyway.

j-s
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Re: Cheating in NeoEE

Post by j-s »

I read: no cheating/glitching shall be tolerated , and It should be handled with extreme transparency and judgement.

In game and on streams i noticed diffrent players using glitches, most often the movement speed/dog glitch.

I wondered why this is being used by players if it is not tolerated to use glitches?

Maybe someone can give some further details, thank you :)

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