Discussion

[Samuel]

Who cares about player speed.. Such a useless tab

Agreed.
Just play the way that best suits you and enjoy the game.

[herik]

I was talking to ras yest, he says he gets about 2-3k ps, as the start of the game he has 6 hot keys lined up and ready to fire HDCCC shift tab. He has 5 groups, like- 1-cit finding hippo 2-dog 3-wood cutters,
And sam was correct about the warming up, he was telling me how you should always do it at start of game, going 111222333444555666, over again cccchhhh, etc


I'll reply to dans comment later...

[Samuel]

Sorry guys but I don't think I'll be able to reply that often, I'm quite busy these days.
I have better things to do, im enjoying my life with my friends, women and University. You should do the same and you will learn, that ee is worthless and not important. The social life is that life, which gives you amazing feelings, luck and satisfaction.

Cheers

[herik]

wolvy has hacked sam

[ben45]

fat boy herik

[lightnessking.]

I was talking to ras yest, he says he gets about 2-3k ps, as the start of the game he has 6 hot keys lined up and ready to fire HDCCC shift tab. He has 5 groups, like- 1-cit finding hippo 2-dog 3-wood cutters,
And sam was correct about the warming up, he was telling me how you should always do it at start of game, going 111222333444555666, over again cccchhhh, etc


I'll reply to dans comment later...

If you do hdccc shift tab you'll select your capitol and citz at once. Wouldn't anyone prefer tab shift tab =P?

[herik]

you get the gist.

[Captain Nemo]

define "standardized"

True... perhaps, let's say, ras would see it differently though.

A known build order u use every time. Lets take your cav start in liga mid as an example. u do almost the exact same moves in the beginning of the game every time. Cause you've tested that this is the perfect eco balance, and the highest gather rates u can get, and u get fastes cav/best eco out of it that way. So you have a "standard" strat for liga mid. Same as grenwar u move 6 or 7 cits to each mine, get rax, go forage, get the hippoes etc. All standardized.

perhaps ras would play differently every set.

[Samuel]

define "standardized"

True... perhaps, let's say, ras would see it differently though.

A known build order u use every time. Lets take your cav start in liga mid as an example. u do almost the exact same moves in the beginning of the game every time. Cause you've tested that this is the perfect eco balance, and the highest gather rates u can get, and u get fastes cav/best eco out of it that way. So you have a "standard" strat for liga mid. Same as grenwar u move 6 or 7 cits to each mine, get rax, go forage, get the hippoes etc. All standardized.

perhaps ras would play differently every set.

Well, Nemo
Liga Dark Ages and Liga Mid are quite an exception actually. You have picked the second worst age as an example

I could play Liga ww1's start in 30 or more different ways (talking about 1v1) .... just including 2 settlement strategies of course, some of them would be adapting to the enemy's strategy/map/your own map, but I think that's a key aspect of liga setting that grenwar only moderately has, isnt it?
After all having 30 or even more of these possibilities, just for 2 settlement strategies, just talking about one single age... would grenwar present that? Come on Nemo, you know it yourself

And that's just ww1, depending on the map, opponent's choices and so forth.
And when I say 30 different ways, I really mean having a different plan each time, that even though is apparently just slightly different at times, it best adapts to the opponent's strategy and turns out to be better than the other choices. No, I'm not exaggerating it, I could name 30 of them just for 2 settlement at ww1, and we aren't even mentioning all of the possibilities with 1 settlement, forward rax rush, and TC boom.

Don't try and bother to ask me to make the actual list, because I would make it, and then expect you to do the same thing on grenwar
And no, that wouldn't be a "standardized" list that I have in my mind already, I would go through past games that I remember, might say things I have tried even just once, and illustrate different scenarios on each of the 30 cases.

perhaps ras would play differently every set.

and would agree with my opinion on Ligasetting. Though that's not the point of the conversation, it's all about the part above

[Captain Nemo]

which is what I was saying all along. liga just has more strats.

[PeLlE]

Anyways some people (looks at Sam) seems tho go for playerspeed as if it was a trophy.

Actually, I never talk about my player speed, unless in specific situations like these, when I'm being asked by the author of the topic to join in the conversation

Ehh Pelie, why do you even talk, I mean I have 5k ps ... my PS is 30x higher than yours! And as you pointed out earlier, IQ = PS, which means my IQ is 30 times higher than yours

To put it more bluntly ... IQ has a stronger influence on Ligasetting than it has on Mid SH.

Do u measure ur IQ by how good u play Liga ? Nice...

No, read above, I strongly agree with Pelie on this, IQ = PS

lightness is somewhat a decent player these days fyi,

dumb debate, i seen samuels liga video, tapping c 50x when he has 4food or something stupid
stupid stuff like this which isnt nessicsary
mouse hotkeys same thing depending how good your hand movements are for the mouse and how fat your fingers are for your hotkeys tubbys

Posts like these really make me smile lol

Yes because I ever said PS = IQ. You must be confusing my posts with your stupidity. Sorry to disappoint you.

[Samuel]

Yes because I ever said PS = IQ. You must be confusing my posts with your stupidity. Sorry to disappoint you.

I have never claimed you said IQ = PS, that must be your imagination

P.S.
Do you want to be my slave, little slut?

which is what I was saying all along. liga just has more strats.

I think you didn't exactly get it, and that's natural because you have never got to play Liga 1v1 that much.
I'm quite busy with studying today, I might eventually elaborate on it tomorrow afternoon.

[Captain Nemo]

which is what I was saying all along. liga just has more strats.

I think you didn't exactly get it, and that's natural because you have never got to play Liga 1v1 that much.
I'm quite busy with studying today, I might eventually elaborate on it tomorrow afternoon.

please don't, I do get your point u just don't get mine. which is natural cause u love liga so much.

[Samuel]

which is what I was saying all along. liga just has more strats.

I think you didn't exactly get it, and that's natural because you have never got to play Liga 1v1 that much.
I'm quite busy with studying today, I might eventually elaborate on it tomorrow afternoon.

please don't, I do get your point u just don't get mine. which is natural cause u love liga so much.

You have no idea on my point, as your previous posts show.

[Arntzen]

How to get playerspeed:

logic tells me it's (hotkeys*x+mouseclicks*y)/time = PS .... but

It's not that simple. I believe it also includes how fast you do certain things. Let's say in a 60 seconds period you do 100 hotkeys. Next game you do all the 100 hotkeys in 30 seconds, then stay idle the next 30. If I remember correct you'll get a higher PS in the second game.

Why spamming is good:

What's amazing to me is how people in a RTS game like this use the word "spam" in a negative sense. Of course, spamming may seem like a waste of time, or waste of eapm (effective action per minute), but then why does every SC player higher than diamond spam like crazy in the beginning of the game?

Samuel talked about "warming up", and yes, spamming helps on warming up. But then again, when Samuel is warm and cosy, lets say his 5th game in a row, he'll still spam like crazy in the beginning of the game. The reason is quite simple when you get the idea. Basically how I would explain it is "getting ready" for the mid-late game.

Example:

Velocity-Time-Graph-Changing-Acceleration.gif (5.13 KiB) Viewed 7068 times

The picture above is obviously not 100% correct, but you get the idea. The game starts out slowly and the speed builds up over time. In the end of the game the "velocity" or "playerspeed" needed is a lot higher than what was needed in the beginning.
Now, what spammers do is they start with around the same speed they will be needing later in the game. Using Samuel as an example he would start out with a 4-5k PS, with lets say 95% spam. Then he would throughout the game transition into a more and more accurate gameplay, and in the end he would be using his full potential.

samuels ps.gif (3.88 KiB) Viewed 7068 times

The black line showing his PS throughout the game, hitting the "PS needed" graph. Funny thing is, I often don't feel the moment where I hit the "PS needed" graph. It's all just a smooth transition. Suddenly I go from a 30% accurate gameplay to a 80% without feeling much difference. This is why spamming is good for you.

Now, why not just follow the graph, be 100% accurate and never spam?
Reason is we won't be able to. The PS needed explodes in games, sometimes in a period we would think was more "relaxed". Lets say you suddenly get attacked from two places while you were attacking your opponent. Here you immediately needs a big boost in your PS, something you (at least all players I've seen so far) won't be able to do.

Why playerspeed is needed:

Since commonly Samuel/Pope of Dope is the examples used in the "playerspeed needed" debate, I'll be using Pope here.
Yes, Pope will play at a very high level with a below 400 PS no matter the setting. He'll often have around same boom, army size and micro as another good player. The real difference between a low PS and a high PS player is a high PS player will have significantly better 2 group micro. I'm not saying Pope of Dope can't control 2 groups. What I'm saying is he'll miss out on something if he's forced to do more than what he normally does. If he actually controls those 2 groups good, he'll be having a worse economical growth then the high PS player.
Not to mention a low PS player will have a bit worse timings on everything. From citizens production to army production. Then again, this might not make a great deal in most scenarios, but sometimes it can be the factor that makes the game go in the high PS player's favor.

Basically, if you're a high PS player you don't let a low PS player be left alone. Go aggressive on him from the start of the game. The more actions you force him to do the more likely he will make mistakes. Obviously you can make mistakes too, but it's less likely since you're used to playing on a higher speed.

Fastest setting:

I know little about Mod DM, but it's quite obvious to me it's the fastest "known setting" there is. (Of course Nano DM would be faster...)
When it comes to the Mid SH versus Liga debate I find myself having around two times more PS when playing a Liga 1vs1 game than when playing a Mid 1vs1 game. The reason for this is I forcefeed more and longer in Liga. Another reason is since Liga has less stone there is worse defense and I'm able to play more aggressive. Where as in a Mid 1v1 game I find there is too many "dead periods". Where both players basically can't attack/do damage to the opponent and just sits tight and booms. One example being waiting for a Hero-push. Another thing that makes me more active in a Liga game is that scouting is so much more important. Normally in a Mid game your 6 first swords scouts their whole base and from that point on scouting is not a big deal at all. Where as in Liga you need to be a lot more active with scouting throughout the whole game to read your opponent so you can make the right decisions.

Does this make Liga a faster setting than Middle? I don't know, but at least I play it faster.

Liga strategies:

When Samuel says he can play a 2settle WW1 Strategy 30 different ways, he's right. But when me and him are discussing the games, we talk about it as "doing a proper 2settle" or "doing the best 2settle". This may be something as simple as having 6 on wood instead of 5 in Mid Liga, or 6 on food instead of 4. To make it simple we're countering what the enemy is doing. So we'll play it different every time, and nothing is "standardized". Obviously, my knowledge on this is tiny compared to Samuel's.
This is only against really good players who we actually can read. We would however just play it safe and "standard" against someone doing what I call "random shit". Like Warrior in GameRanger who ONLY does crazy all-in's.

I'm sure if you tempt Samuel, he'll write an incredible in depth post on exactly what he's thinking throughout a game. I think analyzing games is his strongest skill, and IMO he's the best at it.